Seattle 4-3 Under Defense

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Wilfork#75, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #75 Jersey

    Recently I’ve been trying to look at how to improve the defense, but instead of just looking at drafting or signing the most talented players, I’ve been looking at which scheme would best suit the team and what additions we need to run that scheme. I think we should try and copy Seattle’s version of the 4-3 Under defense because it suits our personnel and the style of defense I would like to play. It’s characterized by a big, physical defensive line that both stops the run and creates pressure through favourable matchups, and a big, physical secondary that plays tough man coverage and presses at the line.

    The basic positions:

    5 Tech DE:
    Big, physical and athletic DE that two gaps the strong side. Needs to be a strong run stuffer that can control the B&C gaps on his side but also have the lateral agility to set the edge on the outside if the defense tries to stretch the C-gap. This is the Red Bryant role in Seattle and a hugely important part of the success of the defense. Currently our best fit for this is Vince Wilfork, but he has another position in this formation.

    1 Tech NT:
    Another big hoss in the middle that plays the 1 Tech to the strong side. He needs to command and hold up against a double team from the C and OG so he needs the size and power to anchor at the point of attack. This is ideal for Vince Wilfork.

    3 Tech DT:
    With the 5-Tech and the NT commanding double teams and occupying the C, OG and OT on the strong side, this leaves the weak side 3-Tech DT 1 on 1 with the other OG. The 3-tech DT is the team’s best interior pass rusher and should be able to not only take advantage of the 1 on 1 matchup with the single OG, but be strong enough to defend the run. I think this is the role Armond Armstead is built for in this defense where he can use his length and athleticism.

    This is the weak side DE, and like the 3-Tech DT, unless an offense plays two TE sets, he will be matched up 1 on 1 with the OT. He needs to be a premier pass rusher to take advantage of the matchup as well as have the length and anchor to set the edge. Luckily we have a 6’5” beast on the edge with a great length, strong anchor and good hand usage to disengage to make plays. Chandler Jones is perfect in this role similar to Chris Clemons.

    This guy plays on his feet near the line and is virtually a 5th defensive lineman. He needs to be strong enough and stout enough to set the edge, physical enough to hit TE’s at the line and have the necessary athleticism to occasionally drop into coverage against TE’s. They also have to be strong pass rushers to take advantage of matchups against TE’s and RB’s. To me this role is best suited to be shared between Hightower and Ninko depending on the matchup. Against strong running teams and less athletic TE’s I think Hightower is ideal because of his physicality and pass rush ability. Against more athletic TE’s and stronger passing teams I think Ninko would be better suited dropping into coverage. Either way, having two guys that can both play the position at a high level would be a huge benefit.

    Like most Mike LBer’s, in this scheme the MLB needs to be intelligent and instinctive to help make play calls for the defense. He needs to be able to take on and crush fullbacks as well as be able to break up short crossing patterns. Brandon Spikes is a solid fit here, although he does lack some athleticism and feel in coverage.

    This guy needs to be the fastest and best coverage LBer. With both lineman in front of him likely having 1 on 1 matchups, he needs to be able to play in space and react quickly. Mayo should be well suited for this role.

    This is the Kam Chancellor role for the Seahawks and one that requires both the size and strength to play close to the line and match up with TE’s, but also the speed and lateral agility to play the deep CF role when the FS moves down over the slot. He needs to be a strong tackler because he will play almost as a 4th LBer at times as an in the box safety. This is a role that will need to be filled because we currently don’t have any one with the skillset to do so.

    This is the standard cover 1 deep CF Safety that gives over the top help to his CBs. He needs to have great range to play the entire field, make good decisions and be instinctive. Ideally he would also have the skillset to drop down over smaller slot WR which the SS would struggle against. I think McCourty is ideal for this role and would excel given a full Training Camp.

    This is generally a cover 1 system so you need strong man to man CB’s who are big, physical and can press at the line. Seattle has the blueprint with Browner and Sherman, so the Pats need their own pair of physical corners on the outside. Dennard is ideal for this, but he needs a partner in crime on the other side, whether that be Talib, another Free Agent or a Draft pick.

    Obviously things change in sub packages, but this is the general idea of the base package. The main benefits of this is that it is strong against the run, but also allows for good pressure by creating favorable match-ups for your best players. Chandler Jones should wreak havoc 1 on 1 against OT’s and if Armstead can live up to the hype he could be disruptive inside. Personnel wise I think there are 3 key pieces missing; the monster 5-tech that can two gap the strong side, a big, physical SS that can play close to the line and match up with TE’s and another physical man to man cover CB. If we can add them I think this would be an ideal defensive scheme to run.

    4-3 Under Defensive Line Alignment
    Seahawks 4-3 Under Base Defense: DL (pressure)
    Here we can see the aim of the defensive line alignment is to create favorable match-ups for its best pass rushers while still being strong against the run. With two big, long and athletic players at the 3-tech (Armstead) and the Leo (Jones), we should have the personnel to be potentially dominant.

    Seattle's 4-3 Under Alignment
    NFL Draft 2013: T.J. McDonald scouting report - Big Cat Country
    Here we can see Seattle's basic alignment. #51 is the MLB, #56 is the WLB and #31 is Kam Chancellor the SS who is playing as an in the box safety, almost as another linebacker. #29 is Earl Thomas the FS in the deep CF role.
  2. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #75 Jersey

    Building the Roster

    Free Agency

    We obviously have 3 key free agent which we would need to make decisions on; Welker, Talib and Vollmer. Salary cap wise I think we could keep two of the three, but that would limit us in other areas. I think Welker is the biggest key and hardest to replace so I would give him a 2-3 year deal. Vollmer probably has the most value around the league, so I would look to tag and trade him to a team that is desperate for OT help. Talib is looking for a big pay day so I would let him walk and look to replace him with another veteran in a very strong free agent CB class.

    In terms of other free agents, it looks like there could be some good value with not many teams having money to spend. There are 3 guys that are free agents (or likely to be cut) that interest me the most. DT Glenn Dorsey from KC has already been discussed on this board and I think he is an ideal buy low candidate. I think he would be perfect as a base 3-tech and sub package DT. CB Nnamdi Asomugha who most people expect to be cut is my main CB target. He has dropped a bit in the last two years but is ideally suited for a physical, man to man defense. And finally Safety Adrian Wilson who is expected to be released by the Cardinals. Last season he was my top S target but he lost playing time as the year went on. I think he still has something in the tank and could not only contribute, but help develop a young SS.

    WR- Wes Welker
    WR- Julian Edelman
    RB- Danny Woodhead
    CB- Kyle Arrington
    LB Tracy White
    CB- Marquice Cole
    LB- Niko Koutovedis

    CB- Nnamdi Asomugha- 6'2" 210lbs (if cut)
    SS- Adrian Wilson- 6'3" 230lbs (if cut)
    DT- Glenn Dorsey- 6'1" 297lbs

    Tag and Trade
    Sebastian Vollmer to SD? Chi? For a 2nd and 4th round pick

    This is an extremely deep draft so I would look to trade back and pick up as many picks as possible. I don’t think there is too much difference between the quality of players between #20 and #80, so I would look to load up on picks in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds.

    I’m not going to predict the exact picks for each draft trade because there is so much change throughout the draft so I will just estimate.

    Trade QB Ryan Mallett to Cleveland for 1st (16-25)
    Mallet for #6 isn’t very realistic, but a Cleveland trade down and Mallett for a mid/late 1st might not be crazy
    1st (Cle) for two 2nds
    2nd (mid round) for two 3rds
    2nd (late round) for 3rd and 4th
    4th for two 5ths

    Draft Picks
    1. DT- Jonathon Hankins- DT- Ohio State- 6'3" 320lbs
    I think he could be ideal for the 5 Tech DE position in the Red Bryant mold. He has the size (6’3” 320lbs), strength, anchor and lateral agility for the position and could contribute from day 1. He seems to be falling at the moment so he may actually be available here. If he’s not I would trade down and take Jessie Williams from Alabama who I think also has the size and strength but doesn’t quite have the athletic upside of Hankins.

    2a. OL- Barrett Jones- Alabama 6'4" 305lbs
    He seems to be falling and I don’t know why. He has been as dominant and consistent an offensive lineman as there has been the past few years in college football and he has done it at every position. Last year many experts had him as a 1st round LT, now he could be an elite C or G. His talent, toughness, intelligence and versatility will make him a top quality NFL offensive lineman from day 1.

    2b. WR- Justin Hunter- Tennessee- 6'4" 200lbs
    I don’t usually go for the raw, athletic WR’s, but Hunter is too good to pass up. His combination of size, speed and athleticism is off the charts and he probably has the highest upside of any WR since Calvin Johnson. He is a big target with a huge catch radius, and will be a big play waiting to happen.

    3a. SS- TJ McDonald- USC- 6'2" 210lbs
    I’ve watched him closely for 2 years and I think he will be a very good NFL SS. In my opinion he is the best fit of any safety in the draft or free agency to fit that Cam Chancellor role in the 4-3 under and would add some size, athleticism and attitude to our secondary. I also think the fact the he is a long term starter, team captain and son of a 6 time All Pro SS certainly work in his favor.

    3b- WR- Da’Rick Rogers- Tennessee Tech- 6'2" 206lbs
    We got the big play WR earlier, now we get the physical outside guy to compliment him. If Rogers character checks out he will be a steal here. Before the season he was my top rated WR and I think his style of play would suit this team perfectly.

    3c. CB- David Amerson- NC State- 6'3" 195lbs
    He is a faller that had a horrible year, but you can’t teach 6’3” with speed, athleticism and ball skills. This is a pick based purely off his skill set and not his play because I think the potential here is huge. He played out of position at NC State playing a lot of off zone or off man coverage. I want to see him playing up at the line, using his length to press the receivers and try and run with them. He is a gamble, but in the 3rd round I think it’s worth the risk.

    3d. OT- Terron Armstead- Arkansas-Pine Bluff- 6'5" 306lbs
    Don’t really need to say much about this pick, he has been well discussed already.

    4. MLB- Vince Williams- Florida State- 6'1" 247lbs
    This is my new binkie and I fell in love from the 2nd play I saw of him. Brandon Spikes has 1 year left on his contract and I don’t think we can afford to keep him so I think Williams would be a perfect replacement. He is aggressive, instinctive and plays the game hard and fast. He has great discipline, reads the play and uses his hands well to disengage and make the play on the ball carrier. He isn’t quite as powerful as Spikes but he isn’t far off. I think he is a much better athlete than Spikes and can stone RB’s at the line as well as chase them to the sideline. He also has a much better feel for dropping into coverage and has fantastic instincts against the run. He has had some injuries but I don’t know why he doesn’t have more hype. I think this guy is a future stud and star in the NFL if he can stay healthy.

    5a. TE- Michael Williams- Alabama- 6'6" 269lbs
    Binkie #1. Best blocking TE in the NFL from day 1, I also love him as a lead blocking FB that is excellent at getting to the second level and opening up big running lanes.

    5b. LB- Ty Powell- Harding- 6'2" 245lbs
    Former community college S turned DE turned OLB. Powell has great athleticism and has dominated lower levels. People raved about his change of direction ability at the Senior Bowl and I think he could develop into a quality coverage LBer with some pass rush skills in the NFL. Probably a STer to start, but with some development he could be a sub package ace.

    7a. K- Dustin Hopkins- Florida State
    Competition is never a bad thing and Gostkowski has a very high cap number. If Hopkins can produce similarly to Gost, he might win the job and save the Pats some cash.

    7b. LS- Carson Tinker- Alabama
    The top LS in the draft, this is just so we don’t have to compete with other teams for him as an UDFA. I think he would be an upgrade over Aiken and adding a contributor to the 53 man roster in the 7th round is never a bad thing, even if he is just a long snapper.

    What I think these Free Agent Signings and Draft picks would do is add size, speed and aggression to both the offense and defense and hopefully help us take the next step to a Super Bowl Championship.

    Preliminary Roster
    QB- Brady, Vet FA (Cassel, Hoyer?), Kafka
    RB- Ridley, Vereen, Bolden, Woodhead, Demps
    WR- Welker, Lloyd, Hunter, Rogers, Edelman, Slater
    TE- Gronk, Hernandez, Ballard, Williams
    OT- Solder, Cannon, Armstead, Zusevics
    OG/C- Mankins, Connolly, Jones, Wendell, McDonald

    5 Tech DE- Hankins, Deaderick
    NT- Wilfork, Love
    3 Tech- Armstead, Dorsey, Forston
    Leo- Jones, Bequette, Francis, Cunningham
    SLB- Hightower, Ninko
    MLB- Spikes, V. Williams, Fletcher
    WLB- Mayo, Powell, Tarpanian
    CB- Asomugha, Dennard, Amerson, Arrington, Dowling, Williams, Cole
    FS- McCourty, Wilson, Gregory
    SS- Wilson, McDonald, Ebner

    K- Gostkowski, Hopkins
    P- Mesko
    LS- Tinker, Aiken
  3. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

    I don't think we have the speed at lb to duplicate their success. They're giving you some gaps. But, Bobby Wanger runs a 4.46 at MLB. He turns those big holes into 3 yard gains. We have Brandon Spikes covering our mistakes. Personnel might be better suited if we let Spikes walk and shift Mayo back inside. He's bigger and not as fast as he used to be. But, he can run a little. Get a Mychal Kendrick, Levonte David type olb.

    What is it about this forum that likes fat guys? Hankins was 350+ last year and got in better..not good..just better shape this year. Maybe, a dt to replace Wilfork type. I don't like him as a 3-tech and certainly he shouldn't be nowhere near the end of the line. He wouldn't be able to set the edge against a good high school team. If you want a 5-tech de that can slide inside for your nickel to give you a pass rush. Datone Jones - UCLA is your guy. If you want a fat guy to stuff the run, but can't get after the qb. Hankins is your guy. IMO we need guys who can get after the qb. Not another fatty. We have Wilfork and Love for that.
  4. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey

    My problem with the Seattle 4-3 Under is that it creates even less pressure on the QB than our system does.

    Seattle sack totals:

    2011 - 38
    2012 - 41 (bear in mind this includes that bizarre GB game)

    New England

    2011 - 57
    2012 - 41

    If we're a fan base constantly clamouring for pass rush, imagine what we'd be like with the 4-3 under.

    However, that was an excellent post, well thought out and well put together.
  5. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    Outstanding thread. I keep going back and forth between 4-3, 3-4, 2-5......I think the problem right now is although the front 7 personnel is pretty good it doesn't mesh together very in any of the schemes. 3-4 we don't have the DE's. 4-3 the LB's are somewhat duplicated skill wise. A 5-2 we don't have a second monster tackle to go with Vince.

    I agree with P-in-PA that Spikes doesn't fit the 4-3 under and we don't have a SS or the CBs to play the scheme.
  6. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #75 Jersey

    I think Spikes walks after this year and I wouldn't be against trading him now if we could get decent value. My new binkie is Vince Williams, and while he wont run a 4.4/5 I think he makes up for it with great instincts and anticipation. He would be an athletic upgrade over Spikes while not losing too much physicality. I think its also important to remember this is just the base package and you can overcome some of the LBer deficiencies on passing downs in sub packages. You could take Spikes (or whoever the MLB is) off the field, shift Mayo into the middle and play an extra safety. I would love to add more speed to the LBers but in this defense the LBers are the least important piece.

    In terms of Hankins, a huge run stuffer is exactly what you want at the 5-tech. He isn't suppose to be a playmaker, he is a facilitator. The entire purpose of this scheme is to get the 3-tech and the Leo 1 on 1 in space against the OT and OG. I like Datone Jones but he certainly doesn't have the size or anchor to two-gap the strong side. He would be a 3-tech similar to Armstead. Hankins might not offer much of a pass rush, but he comes out on passing downs anyway when you shift to sub-packages. Red Bryant is the prototype and Hankins is the closest thing to it in the draft or free agency.
  7. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    Do you have the stats on pressures by each defense?
  8. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey



    Sacks 41
    QB Hits 54
    Hurries 155

    Total 250


    sacks 38
    Hits 36
    Hurries 177

    Total 251



    Sacks 41
    Hits 55
    Hurries 176

    Total 272


    Sacks 57
    Hits 65
    Hurries 215

    Total 337

    Hope that helps. And boy did our pass rush drop off from last year.
  9. stelfans

    stelfans On the Game Day Roster

    Fantastic post, this is why i come here. Kudos Wilfork#75!

    Now, we obviously lack the personnel and has manx pointed out i dont see this as being that great for the rush, altough i think thats more on the talent of the players and number of blitzes.
  10. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #75 Jersey

    I don't think Seattle's lack of pressure was due to the scheme, I think it was just personnel deficiencies. Over half of their sacks from 2012 (19.5 out of 36) where by two players, Chris Clemons (11.5) the starting Leo who is suppose to dominate, and Bruce Irvin (8.0) a sub rusher who lines up opposite on passing downs. What they seem to lack is the dominant presence at the 3-tech who can create pressure on early downs and an interior pass rush in sub packages. They also didn't get much pressure out of their SLB which is another issue.

    Personnel wise I think we could have a better front 4 than Seattle if we can find that 5-tech. I think Jones has the ability to be just as dominant as Chris Clemons in this type of system. Armond Armstead should be well suited to the 3-tech where he will have much more space than other schemes, almost similar to the room he had in the CFL. Wilfork is clearly an upgrade over any NT the Seahawks have and the only piece we are missing at the front is the monster DE who isn't a pass rusher anyway. I also think Hightower and Ninko are much better pass rushers than any of Seattle's SLB's. If we can then get more interior production on passing downs in sub packages, I don't see why this scheme can't create a lot of pressure.
  11. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

    No Jersey Selected

    Long time lurker here in your guys' neck of the woods (best forum on here BTW).

    I just wanted to say this was a great thread by the OP. Thoroughly enjoyed the write up and presentation.

    I really like your ideas too.

    Top Notch Top Notch!
  12. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #75 Jersey

    Thanks buddy. I completely agree, this is the best forum on here, so you should post more. More ideas and discussion are always welcome.
  13. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

    No Jersey Selected

    In that case....:)

    I am not nearly as versed in all of this stuff as you guys are but my eyes tell me the following:

    On Defense:
    The NFL is a pass first, up tempo, offensive leaning, speed game now, far more than it was even 10 years ago.
    1. Our defensive has some great pieces, but overall isnt built (or run) with that in mind. It is a bigger, slower read and react defense.
    2. It seems the successful defenses recently either get great pressure or have a good secondary. IMHO we don't have either.
    3. I would prefer a scheme or philosophy change to focus more on pressure.
    4. Need more speed in LB corp (which kills me cuz I love Spikes and his swagger....Powwww)

    On Offense:
    Clearly we don't have many issues.
    1.I like our running game a lot and think it can only get better with Shane adding diversity to it. I think we could actually run much more than we do.
    2. I think our passing game needs a true downfield threat to make it truly a monster. To me Wes, Gronk, Ahern and Brandon all kinda do the same thing. At least they all represent the same thing; big time, short to intermediate route monsters. But as the Gmen and Ravens have shown, you can muck that area up with good pressure up front and just loading it up. A bigger, Quan Boldin type guy with a little speed (like they grow on trees).
    3. If Wes leaves, I would play Brandon as your possession outside WR. Draft a downfield, bigger WR and move Ahern to Slot. Gronk and Ballard (if healthy) would be two nice TEs (you also draft a nice one)

    As for the particulars. I like your adds in FA - think we need a thumper SS and a good CB.

    I really like your Hunter pick and would love to somehow find Dion Jordan's name being called, although not likely I suppose. Short of that pipe dream, I like draft very much.

    Thanks for indulging me.

  14. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #75 Jersey

    Good stuff man. I agree about NFL offenses conitnuing to evolve into up-tempo, speed offenses and I think that is something that needs to be considered when building a defense. That is one of the things I like about the Seattle scheme, is that it is relatively simple, doesn't require a huge amount of reads and doesn't beat itself trying to figure out complex offenses. Its basically a primary and secondary read defense where you try and create a favorable match-up and then just go out, do your job and beat your man. I think thats a great defensive philosophy when offenses are getting so complex and difficult, to simplify it and just play.

    In terms of creating a more pressure focused defense, I think our base defense was actually very good for most of last season. They did a great job stopping the run and generally put themselves in good positions on 2nd and 3rd down. Its these 3rd downs and obvious passing situations where I completely agree that we need a huge emphasis on pressure. I think we saw a great improvement last year with the switch to a more aggressive press man coverage with Talib and Dennard. I don't think it was the fact that Talib was a huge upgrade over the other corners which is what made it succesful (although he certainly was better), I think it was the aggressive philosophy that made the difference. Playing press man on the outside with confidence in your CB's allows a defense to be much more aggressive and exotic with its pressure and much more unpredictable.

    I think for our sub packages to improve (which is where we need the most pressure) I think we need our secondary to be set, healthy and possess the right skill-set (big, physical cover CB's, deep CF free safety, physical SS to match up with TE's). We also need an upgrade on our interior pressure which hopefully Armond Armstead can provide and hopefully another acquisition, either by FA or the Draft (I really like Glenn Dorsey).

    In terms of offense I completely agree. We currently don't have anyone that can threaten the deep outside part of the field, which allows defenses to bunch the middle and target Gronk and Hernandez. An outside threat that ideally has some size and can stretch the defense not only vertically but the safeties horizontally would be huge. You can never have too many weapons on offense, and I think taking some pressure off of Gronk, AHern and Welker can only be a good thing. I said last year that if Gronk continues to put up record numbers it wouldn't be a good sign for the offense. I would rather reduce their workload, keep them healthy and diversify the offense so if injury does happen (which is inevitable) that we can adjust and adapt.

    I'm having a really hard time getting a read on Dion Jordan. He is obviously a freak athlete and I'm sure everyone would love a shot at seeing what they can do with him, but I just don't know what his position or role would be. He's not a DE that can line up with his hand in the dirt. He's not a great pass rusher to play as a rush LBer. He does have the freak athletecism to drop into coverage and move around the field, but I struggle finding a position for him. Can he play 4-3 OLB? I don't know. Versatility is great but I think you need a primary role first and I struggle finding that with Jordan. However, if he falls into the late 2nd/3rd round I wouldn't hesitate to take him and try and figure it out from there, but where he will likely be taken is too much of a risk for me.
  15. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #3 Jersey

    I cannot afford to get into this, for I've an ocean of work to do between now and April Fool's Day ~ my newest Target Date to get this year's Work done ~ and the Opening Premise is so incredibly rich that I could easily get engulfed by this Subject for the next 6 weeks...But for what it's worth, Brother Wilfork: This is your finest work by far ~ a grand, exquisite MasterPiece!! [​IMG] :youtheman:
  16. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey

    Unless you've got a Geno Atkins on your team, where does that additional pressure come from? The SLB makes the most sense but even there, there aren't many pass rushing SLB's in the NFL either outside of Von Miller.

    As much as I liked your post, you didn't say what it was about our defense that switching to a 4-3 Under would solve. It's not the pass rush and we don't need to fix our run defense (which is what the 4-3 Under is for) so my question is, How would it make our defense better?
  17. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #75 Jersey

    I don't look at this scheme as trying to 'fix' anything, I simply think the techniques, style of play and defensive philosophy put this team in the best situation to succeed. I love the idea of isolating our two most athletic and disruptive defensive lineman 1 on 1. I think it would certainly give Chandler Jones an opportunity to take a jump to the elite pass rushers in the NFL, and if Armstead can live up to the hype he can be potentially disruptive inside. I love the physical nature of the secondary, press man coverage, aggressive single deep safety play and an in the box safety to line up against TE's. I also think its simplicity is well suited to match up against these really complex, high tempo offenses. It has versatility while still having the simplicity to not get tricked by complex offensive play calling. And I love the philosophy of creating preferential match ups and going out and beating your man. Nothing cute, just tough and hard football.

    I also think that looking at this scheme simply by pressure isn't the right way to look at it because this is only the base defense. The issues we have had creating pressure have been on 3rd down and obvious passing situations. When we have needed to get to the QB, we haven't. I don't think that is nearly as much scheme related as it is simply talent. Our mediocre secondary play has forced us to play vanilla defense (until Talib arrived anyway), especially in sub packages and we haven't had any talented interior pass rushers. Although, I think some of the advantages of this scheme and philosophy in creating pressure in sub packages are the aggressive CB and S play allowing the linebackers to be much more active. We have talented blitzing LBers, especially Hightower and Spikes, so giving them opportunities to make plays is a bonus. I also think the aggressive single deep safety, SS in the box allows another blitzing threat as well as the ability to match up with TE's in man coverage to cover LBer deficiencies. I think overall its the philosophy of this scheme in sub packages that could create more pressure through creativity and disguise. Now we still need to players to do it and I think that is where Seattle had some trouble. Its more talented players that 'fix' these issues, I'm just trying to look at how to best use those players if get them.

    To create more pressure in sub packages, I think we really need more talented interior rushers and hopefully Armstead is a step in the right direction. I would like to see another guy added who can create pressure up the middle as well and that is where Dorsey is an intriguing option for me. I think the ideal sub package scenario (depending on offensive personnel in the game of course) would be to have Jones and Armstead be 3-down players, with Wilfork being replaced by a 2nd pass rushing DT. Hankins (or whoever the 5 tech is) comes out of the game and is replaced by a defensive back, the SLB moves to DE and we have the option of moving Spikes out of the game and replacing him with Hightower or a coverage LBer. Based on the acquisitions in my mock, a sub package could look something like this:

    DE- Jones
    DT- Armstead
    DT- Dorsey, Pryor, Forston?
    DE- Hightower, Ninko, Francis, Bequette
    LB- Mayo
    LB- Spikes, Hightower, Powell
    CB- Dennard
    CB- Asomugha
    DB- Arrington, Dowling, Amerson, A.Wilson
    FS- McCourty
    SS- McDonald, A.Wilson
  18. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey

    Fair enough and a good answer. I'm not trying to be negative about something you've obviously thought a lot about, it's just I don't see the advantage of the switch.

    However, I'm not keen on drafting J Hankins in the first round and then taking him out on sub packages which account for more than 50% of our defensive plays. You'd be better off having Vince play the 5-tech and Love or a later round pick playing the 1-tech. Alternatively draft Datone Jones and bulk him up for the 5-tech (switches inside to partner Armstead in sub) or draft Margus Hunt and rely on his length at the 5-tech (he could then play DE opposite Chandler Jones in sub).
  19. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #75 Jersey

    One of the reasons I would take Hankins over someone like Jessie Williams who I also think could be a very good base 5-tech in this defense (and available later on) is I believe Hankins has the athletic upside to eventually develop into an interior pass rush presence as well. I think he can play in the base defense from day 1, but could become a rotational guy in passing situations as well. He's not just a big fat guy to occupy space, I think he has some legitimate athletic upside. I also think he would certainly play enough snaps to be worth a 1st round pick. Not all sub packages would dictate that he comes out of the game, its just the 3rd down and obvious passing situations he would be subbed out. I probably didn't explain my last post very well, but on early downs where offenses play 3 WR I don't think he would come out just because we go into a nickel defense. I think it would be more likely Spikes goes out, Hightower goes to Mike and Arrington comes on to cover the slot.

    I really like Datone Jones, but I think he would purely be a 3-tech in the base and sub package DT. I don't think he could hold up at the 5-tech and I think if he added the necessary weight he would lose his speed and explosiveness which make him a handful inside. I would still love to have him because in passing situations next to Armstead I think he would be a beast, but i don't think he or Armstead would be strong enough to hold up at the 5-tech. I'm not a fan of Margus Hunt at all and think he is the most overrated prospect in the draft. He might be a freak athlete, but he isnt a very good football player. In the 4th round he might be worth a shot, but I wouldn't touch him before then. I can see where you are coming from, but I think we just put different values on to what is important out of that 5-tech.
  20. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey

    I just don't see anything that's great about Hankins. He's OK at everything required of him but excels at nothing. At least with Jesse Williams, he's exceptional at taking on blockers - I worry that Hankins will offer nothing in the passing game and wash out in the running game. And I'm with you on Hunt - love his length and athleticism but have seen nothing which suggests he'd be a particularly good prospect.

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