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Sean Smith CB Utah - Is there a thread about him yet?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Mogamedogz, Jan 29, 2009.

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  1. Mogamedogz

    Mogamedogz Rookie

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    Sorry if this is a dup. Mods pls merge it if it is.

    6'2 - 215, can play CB/S.

    has anyone done their homework on this kid yet? Might be one to watch at the combine.
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's a favorite as you'll note when you dig into the various threads. ;)
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's gotten a fair amount of attention. I had him going #23 to the Pats in my January 15 mock offseason and draft. Since that time he's been prominently mentioned in a number of posts on potential 1st round picks, CBs, safeties, etc.

    Sean Smith is one of my binkies. I think he has tremendous potential at both CB and FS. There is not a lot of film on him but he seems to be a playmaker and to have good ball skills. No one really knows at this point how he will time and whether he has the agility to play CB, but he is one of the most intriguing prospects in the draft. I can't wait to see how he does at the combine.
  4. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    He's been mentioned in numerous threads as a potential 1st rounder for the Pats. As for his position, much of it will depend on how he does at the combine. He is supposedly not a long strider (means he gets to speed quickly) and supposdely has loose hips that help make his agility better than normal for a big man, almost on par with some of the smaller CBs...
  5. satz

    satz Rookie

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    He is too big for our system but on the other hand if we do play mayo and guyton we gain some speed in the LB and maybe can loose some speed in our defensive back.
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What does "too big for our system" mean? What does size have to do with it? Either he has the agility, ball skills and other traits that BB values, or he doesn't.

    The Pats reportedly rated DRC their #1 CB last year. At 6'2" he apparently wasn't "too big" for their system. All the people salivating at the thought of Asomugho don't seem caught up on the idea that he might be "too big" for the Pats' system.

    We need speed everywhere on defense. More speed in the LB corps shouldn't be an excuse for slow DBs. If Sean Smith is too slow and doesn't have the agility to play DB for us then we shouldn't go after him. But if he does, then we can find a way to use him, whether at CB or S.
  7. Wretch

    Wretch Rookie

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    I think the Pats value agility, technique, and speed over size, but I don't think they exclude players that meet their primary requirements who are also 6'+ or 200#+

    But then again none of us really know what the Pats want, only the Pats do.
  8. Isaac

    Isaac Rookie

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    I have a hard time seeing him at #23, I don't know why but he just doesn't quite seem well enough developed to be a 1st rounder. However, my hope is that he's a guy that appeals to draftniks a bit more than he does to NFL GMs, and that the Patriots could get him at #48.
  9. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Totally agree with your assessment, and I'd even go a little further. If there's one position where the Pats have a significant and very consistent drafting history, it's DB. Here's a post I wrote 2 years ago outlining the skill profile:
    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ouston-sirius-nfl-radio-page2.html#post341357

    For CB rather than safety you can add a physical profile, which is quickness/agility and leaping ability above all. Take a look at the corner they were reported to have ranked #1 last year (DRC) and the corner they actually drafted in the 2nd (Wheatley) and you'll see remarkable similarities.
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Patchick, I like what you wrote 2 years ago: "In short, there appears to be a clear profile for a Pats-drafted DB. It's not a physical profile, it's an on-the-field profile. Good hands, strong in run support, excellent field awareness and read-and-react/ball-tracking skills."

    The first thing we need to find out is whether Sean Smith fits the profile for either CB or S. We'll know more in a month or so. The next question is what his measurables are and how likely he is to go in the draft (not so much because we are preoccupied by his measurables, but others will be and they will affect where he will go). He may end up being a top-20 pick, a low first round pick, or a second rounder at this point, but it's all moot until we get a better sense of how well he fits. His size, ball skills, and reportedly agility for a man his size are promising, but there's not enough to be certain how well he fits.
  11. Box_O_Rocks

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    Still and all folks, the one potential round 1 DB who matches patchick's profile to a 'T' is the other "Smith."

    As to "tall" DBs: BB has brought them in before to play specific roles - Chad Scott, Lewis Sanders. He goes after physical DBs who have enough size to battle the giant WR and TE, and some experience to step into a game situation cold and play a specific role. If Sean Smith has all the profiled physical tools, he may be drafted to compete with Wheatley, Wilhite, and Hobbs, but he's handicapped by being a junior - I wouldn't be surprised if at some point draftniks like Mayock start mumbling about how he should have stayed in school and gotten a little more experience.
  12. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You betcha. Pending combine numbers, Mr. Alphonso is the living embodiment of the Pats CB profile.
  13. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Here we go again. The midget CB that is a must for the Pats because there are no CB's over 5'10" that have that "quick twitch". I am amused watching the "quick twichers" get beat down by Plex,.T.O., Colson and Fitzgerald and oh yeah, Moss.
    That has really worked well for us the last few years as far as DBs go when we try to match up. That way too tall CB in Oakland is awful. That very weak CB Champ Bailey is way too tall at 6'.
    I am not saying you are wrong about scheme Satz. You might be right. I just do not get the 5'8" CB. When has that worked? When Green retired from the Redskins?

    I don't believe the Pats should go that smallCB route, but then who am I? They tried to draft Zack Bowman at 6' last year. Maybe there is hope.
    DW Toys
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
  14. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, the Plexico beat the Patriot down when he was matched up against a 5'9 INJURED CB... The Patriots could have put Samuel on him, but felt they didn't need to..

    Terrell Owens, while having 6 receptions, was held to 66 yards and 1 TD. Not a great day for him.

    Colston? He hasn't played against the Pats.

    Fitzgerald? He's played against the Pats twice. Once in 2004. He had 5 receptions for 35 yards. I'm not sure if it was Poole or Law matched up against him. And it was only his 2nd game of his rookie year. This year, he had 3 receptions for 101 yards, including a 78 yarder. However that 78 yarder was a break down by the entire defense and can't be blamed on just one person.

    So, while I agree that the Pats could be looking at a taller cornerback if he has the agility and technique, I think that you could have done a better job with your examples.
  15. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    I think the Combine will be the place where we all get to see how this kid moves and which DB's "Look good for our system". I love the NFL network's coverage as we get to see how these kids move. I think after the combine I will have more info on who I like for a first round DB but from what I have watched on film Sean Smith can play.
  16. Box_O_Rocks

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    The National Football Post | Juniors On The Rise
  17. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why not both of them? Back to this thought in a minute. But first ...

    There's no doubt Alphonso Smith is a great college player and has a lot of the attributes that the Pats look for at CB. He's gamey, very tough, plays with a chip on his shoulder, plays the run extremely well for a small guy, has good reactions, and has probably the best ball skills of any CB in the draft. BUT he's 5'8" and doesn't have blazing speed. His ceiling is probably Asante Samuel ... maybe Darryl Green, but he doesn't have Green's amazing speed and ability to compensate for mistakes. He's be a great 2nd round pick. But at 23? I'm not so sure.

    Sean Smith, on the other hand, has 6'3" height and man corner ability with excellent ball skills. His ceiling is more like Nnamdi Asomugha, or ... dare I say it ... Sean Taylor?

    Add 10 lbs. to Sean Smith and play him at FS, with his cover skills and ball skills, and I personally think he would have a much better shot of becoming the "next Sean Taylor" than Taylor Mays does. A lot of people were salivating at the idea of Taylor Mays in the Pats backfield, and wouldn't have considered Alphonso Smith to be even in the same league as a prospect.

    If Sean Smith played for the USC hype machine he would be a concensus top 10 pick right now based on his unbelievable physical ability. We would all be dreaming about "what if" we could trade up to get him. He also has production. Patschick mentioned that Wheatley and DRC had a 11 picks in their college careers. Sean Smith had 9 in less than 2 seasons at CB. He would be ideal to put on the big WRs such as Plaxico Burress, Terrell Owens, and Chad Johnson, as well as on TEs such as Dustin Keller and Dallas Clark. Sean Smith and Meriweather could become what Sean Taylor and Laron Landry were turning into in Washington.

    Which gets me back to ... why not both of them?

    I could realistically see Sean Smith becoming a 1st round pick based on his upside, and Alphonso Smith slipping to the early 2nd based on his height. A team like Cleveland picking at #37 in the 2nd round and needing CB could jump all over him (imagine picking Aaron Curry at #5 and Alphonso Smith at #37 and reuniting them, and then a big running back like Brown from CT in the top of the 3rd to back up and eventually replace Jamal Lewis; Cleveland would suddenly be competitive again and people would start calling Mangini "Mangenius"). Take Sean Smith at #23 and then trade our 3rd to move up from #47 to the top of the 2nd round and pick up Alphonso Smith. (Maybe get Connor Barwin at #57 to round out my fantasty). If we resigned James and Lewis Sanders and picked up a reasonably-priced FA such as Jabari Greer (assuming Hobbs will leave after 2009; or just keep Hobbs) our secondary would look like:

    - S: Brandon Meriweather, Sean Smith, James Sanders, Lewis Sanders
    - CB: Alphonso Smith, Jabari Greer/Ellis Hobbs, Terrance Wheatley, Gerald Wilhite

    Looks much better to me than what we had in 2008.
  18. Box_O_Rocks

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    Greedy, aren't we?
  19. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why not, what are fantasies for?

    But if fixing the secondary is really a top priority, it's not totally unrealistic. Sounds better right now than William Moore at #23 and a CB in the 2nd round.
  20. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But what about Louis Delmas in round 1 with Clint Sintim and Connor Barwin in round 2 and Burnett in round 3? :p
  21. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't see Louis Delmas as a 1st round talent right now. I think Sean Smith has a much higher ceiling. I like Delmas, and think he'd be a fine 2nd round pick, though Delmas and Meriweather seem a little light as our 2 safeties.

    Burnett's a fine player and a good fit for the Pats, but do you really see him being a 3rd round prospect right now? I would have thought more like 4th-5th, but please educate me.
  22. Box_O_Rocks

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    I haven't seen him play yet, a number of our Burnett fans here have been talking 3rd round or sooner. I'll hopefully know more after the game tomorrow.
  23. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    You're smoking crack if you think that the Pats felt putting a 5'9 corner on a 6'5 wide receiver one on one was a favorable matchup for them. Hobbs was isolated on that play because the Pats were bringing the blitz and the blitz didn't get to the QB in time. Hobbs just physically CANNOT matchup with Plex in the red zone. Result - Touchdown.

    The thing about Smith that is interesting besides his height is his flexibility to play either CB or S. His versatility might be appealing to BB.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
  24. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    BB goes for sure things with his first round picks. He uses the second and third round on "projections".

    Sean Smith is a projection for S, as there are no sure thing Safeties now that Mays and Rolle didn't come out. BB will pick the sure thing, whatever that might be, and then maybe either wait for a DB in the second or trade up to get his choice. I suspect that might be Alphonso. Then he will bring in a bunch of vet min FA and spend 3rds ansd 4ths on Safties and DE-->OLBs, so I suspect.:)
  25. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 Rookie

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    NFL Draft Scout currently has him projected for rounds 5-6. I doubt he moves up much further post Combine, as IMO, his 40 time will not be among the fastest. He's currently ranked #22 on their CB list.

    Coincidentally, Wilhite was ranked #22 last draft, while Wheatley was ranked #21, and both were also projected for rounds 5-6. As we know, Wilhite went in round 4, and Wheatley was the 8th CB selected overall in round 2. After the Pats selected Terrence, some said he was a reach due to his projection, but obviously the Pats thought highly of him. Same will hold true for any prospect. If the Pats want a player who fits their system, and don't want to risk losing him, they may select a player earlier than consensus rankings. If they're high on Burnett, I think he falls into that category of drafting him earlier (Round 3?). Rest assured though, he's not the only prospect (or CB) the Pats would reach for, as there are several others who seem like they will fit.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
  26. mayoclinic

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    There are no "sure things", even though we've had a very good success record with high picks. Chad Jackson's a good example of that. Certainly Myron Rolle isn't a sure thing at safety.

    DeAngelo Williams was more of a "sure thing" at RB than Maroney, but we took the younger player with the higher upside. Maybe that was the wrong choice, but the Pats have been willing to gamble on players with upside before in the 1st round. Ben Watson is another case in point.
  27. DaBruinz

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    What had Plexico done in the game prior to that TD? OH, yeah. 1 catch for 14 yards. And, if the Pats didn't feel it was a favorable match-up, why didn't they put Samuel on him? But, you like to ignore things like that and you like to ignore that Hobbs was playing with a bumm shoulder AND sports hernia.

    Hobbs was isolated on the play because the safety on that side didn't move over like he was supposed to. But Its not like hobbs could do much with his nagging injuries either.

    Don't forget that it was Samuel who was beat twice by David Tyree. One for a TD and one for the amazing reception that Harrison couldn't swat away at the end.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  28. billdog3484

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    i think plax 1 on 1 with anyone is a bad matchup. i was actually talking about that play yesterday. too many people blame hobbs, which is very unfair. deion wouldve gotten smoked on that one. it was all out blitz the giants picked it up and we lost. what can ya do
  29. Deus Irae

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    I forget which it was (I think it was Colvin, but I'm not sure), but one of the Patriots players broke down the play on the radio. It was an all-out blitz, and it had been successful all during the playoffs. The idea was to force Manning to throw it immediately, and the only good throw at that point would have been the slant because Manning wouldn't have enough time to set up for a fade pass. Hobbs, therefore, played for the slant, but the blitz didn't get there. The problem wasn't with Hobbs, and it wasn't with the safety. The problem was that the entire blitz got picked up, whereas the safety had been getting free hits on the quarterback every other time they'd been using it that season.

    Plays like this are why I so often tell people who are complaining about cornerback play that they don't know what the hell they are talking about when dealing with the Patriot's system. Yes, sometimes it's obvious where a breakdown happened. Probably just as often, however, you need to know the play called and have the game film to be certain. New England just doesn't run straight man often enough for the 'layman' to make the correct analysis with just some cursory looks.
  30. VJCPatriot

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    And you choose to ignore the fact that Hobbs couldn't stop Burress 1 on 1 in the redzone even if he were 100% healthy. Stop trying to use injury as an excuse. Football players have to play through their injuries all the time. It's part of their job description. Unless your're LT and don't even get me started about him.

    I didn't say that Samuel would have definitely stopped Burress either. I'm just stating facts that Hobbs PHYSICALLY was overmatched by Burress. Result was a TD. Hobbs 1 on 1 against a 6'5 receiver is just NOT a good matchup.

    The defensive call was a bad one because it left a guy in a bad iso matchup at a crucial point in the game. Sure if Hobbs had safety help over the top, that play might never have happened. But he didn't, and he got burned because he was given a job he couldn't handle alone. I really haven't stated anything but facts here and the only reason you're getting irrate is that you can't stand anyone saying even one slightly NEGATIVE thing about a Patriots player, no matter how true it is. Well get over it!
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