Welcome to PatsFans.com

Sea Bass in line to See Cash?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by borg, Nov 10, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. borg

    borg Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The Most underpaid players in the NFL

    The most underpaid players in the NFL | National Football Post

    "Sebastian Vollmer (OT)-New England Patriots: Vollmer has only given up one sack in eight games this season. If the 2009 fourth-round pick continues his strong play, he should contend for All-Pro honors and earn his first trip to the Pro Bowl. Vollmer was limited to six games last season because of back and foot problems after being named second team All-Pro in 2010. He is making $675,000 this season in the final year of his four-year rookie contract. Given that upper echelon offensive tackles typically make more than upper echelon offensive guards, teammate Logan Mankins’ deal ($8.5 million per year, $30 million in guarantees, $30.5 million over the first three years), which makes him the NFL’s second highest paid guard, should serve as the floor for Vollmer’s new contract. The Patriots also have the option using their franchise tag on Vollmer, which is projected to be $9.278 million for offensive linemen."

    Can NE pay both Welker and Volmer in 2013? Max contracts for Brady, Mankins, Welker, Volmer???.....premium contracts for Gronk and AHern......Significant money for Lloyd.
    Can the NE O roster get more top heavy than it already is? Welker vs Volmer...Volmer vs Welker........vying for the same $$$$?
  2. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3,601
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Can afford both. Mankins is the only other OL making anything. Welker's hit could actually go down for a year or two allowing it to happen. If Wes signed 3/24, you could give him 12m bonus, then 4, 4, 4. Cap hit is 8m. He might look elsewhere. Doubt he gets 10m anywhere. Not sure he'd leave over 1m per year. His cap hit is something like 9.5 this year so it would actually go down. Even if you made it 3/27 it goes down a little. Vollmer's contract will be longer so the signing bonus can be spread out. You can make the larger yearly hit come after the cap goes up a little.

    The cap won't prevent us from signing these guys. Pats can point to injury possibilities as a reason for not signing them. But, not the cap.
  3. Finnishfan

    Finnishfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    They should be able to afford both, becouse they lose a lot of dead money next year.

    Matt Light, TBC, Bodden and Ty Warren combine for over 10M$ dead money this year which would have been a contract year for all of them.

    Too bad we still have to carry 2,5M$ with Fanene and 1,5M$ with Ocho to 2013, otherwise our dead money would propably be at all time lowest.
  4. Big-T

    Big-T Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #51 Jersey
    ~31m in free cap space + Brady can always restructure his massive cap hit next year and add an extra year or 2 onto his current deal.

    Plenty of room to keep whoever Bill wants to keep.
  5. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #87 Jersey
    given his injury history. Do we honestly see Seabass getting 8 per year?
  6. Big-T

    Big-T Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #51 Jersey
    Do any RTs in the league make 8 per?
  7. RodThePat

    RodThePat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,240
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I'd expect him to get about 6 million a year at most.
  8. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,927
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The issue is that he is plenty fast to play the left side. Other teams know it and I'm sure his management knows it. Great player. Hopefully they retain him.
  9. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,376
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I doubt that will be enough to get it done. Vollmer was an All Pro, and he also played effectively at LT. I'm sure his agent will argue that he can't be considered strictly a RT from a market perspective - and that's probably correct.

    It's also worth watching what happens with Minnesota and RT Philip Loadholt, taken 4 picks before Vollmer in the 2009 draft. Loadholt is a pure RT, but a very good one - not quite as good as Vollmer IMHO, but still very good. The Vikings are over $8M under the cap and are reportedly interested in extending him. Any deal would likely set a floor for Vollmer.
  11. patman52

    patman52 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I expect him to get around 5 years 32 mill with a two stage bonus, maybe 8 up front and another 5 in the 3rd year. The pats will pay him premium RT money buy will try to protect them selves from the back.
  12. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    12,304
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +23 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    If that's all it takes, then sign him up for another 5 years! Vollmer's been the Pats best RT in a long time. When healthy. I don't see why the Pats wouldn't give him say 30/5 with say a 8.5m bonus?
  13. Calciumee

    Calciumee PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    4,598
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I am the only one who noticed that they list him as a 4th round pick? He was a second! :D
  14. Big-T

    Big-T Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #51 Jersey
    He was a "reach" too remember :D
  15. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Apparently the Cowboys RT Doug Free does, but he was signed to be a franchise LT. Found this article interesting. The problem remains that owners did nothing to delineate roles or value at the position when they had the chance to during CBA negotiations. Unlike DL roles OL roles are not seperated for tag purposes. The franchise tag for OL this season was $9.4M... Would make it hard to tag Seabass, which otherwise given his injury history might have been a wise stop gap. Next best option would be to get an extension done with him late this season that both allows for additional amortization and hopefully includes some incentivization/option bonus language based on snaps. Can't see him approaching $8M for lots of reasons, not the least of which is they gave that to Mankins and before you know it (after next season) our LT for a decade will be up for an extension that may come close to double digits. A $30M OL would be a tough roster workaround. And we seem to do OK at the position via draft.

    Maybe Jason could weigh in on the going rate for RT's. This article had the top 10 averaging $5M. So maybe based on that you're looking to work him into the $6M+ AAV new money range, again on an extension you get done this season with some protection for the player but some insurance for the team cap wise.

    Bob's Blog - Live from Lewisville: Is Doug Free Being Paid Too Much To Play Right Tackle?
  16. borg

    borg Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Volmer possesses big time leverage.

    1) His replacement is Marcus Cannon.....need I say more.
    2) He's Pro Bowl good and likely seen as a LT candidate for multiple LT needy teams
    3) He's a Patriot ....(A) Dante trained which has value (B) Addition by subtraction.....help the buyer/hurt the Patriots.

    Look at the contracts some of the crappy teams in the league are throwing at FAs. There's huge money out there that has to be spent either on their own players or FAs.

    It wasn't too long ago that the Pats were very tight handing out large contracts. Now everyone gets one. Just shows you how much money is available throughout the league. Volmer is GETTING PAID......by who??? TBD
  17. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Might be too much in total $ but the bonus lines up with what RT Eric Winston got in FA. Rotoworld says he got a four-year, $22 million contract. The deal contains $8.4 million in bonus money. 2012: $900,000, 2013: $4.9 million, 2014-2015: $3.9 million.

    Sea Bass should get less than that b/c he hasn't proven to be as durable, IMO.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  18. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,235
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    It's a little more complex than that: after the 2013 season, the Pats have to decide if they want to pick up a fifth-year option on Solder for 2015. That doesn't preclude them from extending him earlier, though.
  19. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    5,279
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #75 Jersey
    This is one of those possible signings that bother me. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Right Tackles grow on trees. Just not the caliber of Vollmer and not ones who can also play left tackle at a high level as well. IMO you just don't let him get away regardless of the injury history. You sign him and just hope he plays 19 games a year for the next 4 or 5 seasons.

    Back issues are no joke, meanwhile they did their homework on Gronk and that worked out "ok". I'm sure they got the medical info on SeaBass to know if the signing will be worth it.
  20. borg

    borg Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Do you really think Volmer's agent is likely to negotiate for RT money?
  21. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    What I think is irrelevent. The Patriots are not going to play Vollmer LT money to play RT. Period.

    If that is his agent's negotiating strategy the Pats will move on.

    I would also assume that other NFL teams will not pay Vollmer LT $$ when he's only played the position out of need and he also has an injury history.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  22. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3,601
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Less than half of his contract will be guaranteed. Why are we worried about injuries? We'd keep him for a year or two even if he did get hurt. If he has a serious injury you cut him. Geez.
  23. borg

    borg Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    A couple of points to remember going forward...

    -In 2013, a salary floor gets instituted....basically teams must layout 89% of salary cap in cash each year going forward. Teams have to spend......talent be damned.
    -Because the salary cap has increased significantly over the past few years and GMs have figured out how to avoid cap hell, teams have done a better job locking up talent earlier avoiding loss in Free Agency. Fewer premium FAs hit the market these days. Even when a middling FA does hit the market......Mark Anderson comes to mind......look what desperate teams are willing to spend for certain levels of talent.
    -And check out some of the playoff caliber teams with O line/sack issues. Chicago and GB come to mind. There window is currently open....but for how long.

    I just think Volmer sits in a very comfortable seat right now and if he can get through the rest of the year upright, the market will come to him.
  24. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    He has an injury history. If he didn't it wouldn't be an issue.

    Also on a team's cost to value ratio when a player is being paid big $$ and isn't performing is a killer. Now you need to pay another player to occupy the roster spot and pay him.

    Cutting him and accelorating the cap hit can really hurt a team.
  25. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,628
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    You make good points, Borg not sure using Anderson helps your argument as he played DE, registered 10 sacks and played well in the playoffs. The Bills signed him to do just that- which means not change his position. I don't think there is a precident of a team signing a player to play LT when he has played RT.

    You are speculating that a team or two will pay Vollmer big money to play LT when he has barely played it for the Pats. if the Pats thought he was a LT they would play him there and not Soldor. Of course, you may be right and other teams may disagree with the Pats.

    I also don't think the Pats will overpay him just so the can meet the CBA guidelines but thats my opinion which is meaningless.:p
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  26. patriot.de

    patriot.de Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    4) He's German. Germans are loyal to death ;)
  27. RodThePat

    RodThePat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,240
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Very cute to talk about Cannon as if he's assuredly horrible. Dude had a bad preseason, but so did Solder. Who's to say he can't play?

    On your other points, do you really think somebody is going to hand him top-10 tackle money to protect the blindside, when they haven't really seen him do much of that as a pro? Tell me three teams that are on the verge of contending that don't already have a solid vet or a promising young player at LT. I honestly don't believe the market for him is all that big.
  28. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,816
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Has Cannon done anything to show that he can play?
  29. Big-T

    Big-T Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #51 Jersey
    If the worst case scenario happens and they can't reach a deal he could always be franchise tagged anyway.
  30. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I'd like to know where you got that number.

    Current cap space, NFLPA version | ProFootballTalk

    The New England Patriots will approximately have $19.85 million in cap space for the 2013 NFL Season plus an additional $6.4 million rolled over from the 2012 NFL Season, based upon 2012 NFL salary cap allocations to date.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page