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SD legislature bans abortion.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInMaine, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. PatsFanInMaine

    PatsFanInMaine Rookie

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  2. BelichickFan

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    Excellent. The start of a move away from legalized murder. Strike one up for the good guys.
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Government tries again to assert control over a woman's body.

    I wish the sexist anti-abortion crowd would show more compassion for the living, rather than for a mass of fetal matter, but of course true compassion costs money, which goes against many of the religious perverts who oppose abortion.
  4. Chevy

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    If the majority of Californians agree with this ruling, then so be it. Its the state's right to make laws based on the desire of the populace. The federal government say that it is legal, basically giving the states the right to decide yes or no. Cali has decided not to allow abortions.

    I for one support pro-choice. However, as I'm not a resident of California, I really have no say in the matter.
  5. mikey

    mikey Rookie

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    Hmmm ....

    SD = South Dakota not San Diego or Sacramento



    .
  6. Chevy

    Chevy Rookie

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    :D


    Leave me be .. it's been a long week .... Saw San Diego for some reason ...
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2006
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now don't be touchy Patty, but wern't you once a "mass of fetal matter"?
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2006
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am agnostic.

    I care less about 9 months of a woman's body than the whole life of the baby who is ripped to pieces.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If the majority of Californians wanted George Bush ripped to pieces would that be OK too ? Abortion is a disgusting perversion of mankind.
  10. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    This won't stop abortion. It will continue in back alleys with coat hangers as it was before legalization. Then the bible thumpers will be truly happy when sterile women are once again admitted with perforated uteruses bleeding out.
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It won't stop it. But any law which is morally correct is good. And all pro life people aren't bible thumpers :p :)
  12. Chevy

    Chevy Rookie

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    Then I assume you'll never be a party to one. That's the beauty of our society, you can disagree all you wish. But, you can't force your views on someone else.

    Ms. Smith's decision to have an abortion does not affect you in any way. It doesn't infringe on your rights, and it doesn't deny you anything.
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No but if you killed your neighbor it wouldn't infringe on my rights nor would it deny me anything. But it would still be wrong.
  14. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rookie

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    Way to generalize Patters. good job.
  15. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    Put up or shut up. You gotta admire a state GOP for finally acting on their word and banning abortion.

    Okay then, PFiM, PLEASE tell your buddies in Washington to have a vote on this same exact bill in the U.S. Congress. Please, please√Ę‚ā¨¬¶ I beg you.
  16. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    I am no bible thumper, but I can't support abortion, either. There are alternatives. Not acceptable to the Christian Right, but give choice before conception. This alleviates the whole rape/incest arguement. These tradgedies happen to a woman, she can take this drug immediately after coitus and prevent pregnancy. Similarly, should a contraceptive failure occur, this drug could be used to stop those pregnancies as well.

    I agree with BF on this one. Abortion is a disgusting perversion of mankind. And it violates the rights of the unborn, making it unconstitutional, as well.

    But that doesn't mean we should offer no alternatives to give women the right to choose, either. We do not need a neo theocracy here, either. The pulpit should stay out of politics. It doesn't belong.
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Shirtsleeve, if you're not particularly religious, why are you using religion to define when a fetus becomes a human being? Why do you think you are better qualified than the woman to make decisions about her own body? Why do you think you know better than scientists when the fetus is viable outside the womb? You do realize every year there are millions of abortions performed around the world, don't you? Do you really think all those women are engaged in a "disgusting perversion of mankind"?
  18. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It has nothing to do with religion for me. AFAIC anything that's done that causes something that would become a human person to not become one is murder. That's from the moment of conception. I don't care if they're human yet, the act of a person should not interfere stop what will otherwise be a life.

    The woman and her own body is a BS arguement IMO. It's a mere 9 months after which she can put the child up for adoption. That's a small sacrifice compared to having a baby ripped to pieces . . . how about the baby's choice to not have that happen ?
  19. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    There is no question by anyone within the scientific community of whether the fetus is life or not.All agree it is. The issue is whether its human life. This is not a religious question. It is a scientific one.
    I make no claims to know of a woman's body, other than that knowledge that got her there in the first place. The issue is not viability of the fetus now outside of the womb. The fetus is human. Made of human, self developing, though not self sustaining right now, with a distict genetic fingerprint. The issue here is this simple. Will the result of a few months of life support(pregnancy) result in a self sustaining American human baby? If the answer is yes, its a baby, if no, its tissue, go ahead and remove it. The pro abortion attempt to dehumanize the slaughter of American children as "tissue" infuriates me. What happens in other countries is beyond my input, but yes I do feel they are performing, at best a disgusting perversion of mankind.

    The funny thing is, until conception happens, I totally support a woman's right to choose, as I indicated earlier. Then her right to choose is trumped by the baby's right to life.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2006
  20. Chevy

    Chevy Rookie

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    The way I understand it, from a biological standpoint, that until the fetus can survive outside the womb without assistance (medical assistance), it is in a parasitical relationship with the mother (the host). It draws resorces from the host without providing any return.

    I think the ultimate issue is our society's willingness to accept irresponsible actions without any sort of repercussions - except to the child. You need a license to own a dog, you need a license to put a new roof on your house. Why not a license to have a child?

    I'd like to see a law that would require classes on child care (refreshers courses for each additional child) that would grant a couple a license for 1 year.
  21. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What a concept - but it requires personal responsibility which is tougher than just getting the baby chopped out.
  22. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Call it what you want, the one fact we know is it will become a baby without the interference of a murderer (aka doctor).

    Fine with me. I think we should need a license to vote too. I have a small feeling the ACLU won't like this idea though ;)
  23. BlueTalon

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    As well as an English literacy test and an IQ test!
  24. BlueTalon

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    Speaking for the Christian Right, let me say that a morning-after pill is vastly preferable to the barbarism of an abortion procedure. And in cases of rape and incest, I'm all for castration and emasculation. There's no reason for the woman to suffer by herself, IMO.
    This whole argument about it being the woman's body is just nuts. Your point about women making decisions because it's her body is flawed at the premise. Abortion is not about her body. It's about a very tiny somebody-else's body. If she wants to have an abortion via hysterectomy, fine -- that's her body. But abortion in general is not about her body, it's about that other body that she doesn't want to take care of or have bother her (in most cases) or that is threatening her life (in a few cases). Killing that tiny human, while doing virtually nothing to the woman's body, is what abortion is all about. Pretending that it's all about the woman's body is ignoring the pink elephant in the room. With abortion via hysterectomy, it's still destroying the tiny human, but at least in this instance the case can be legitimately made that it is the woman's body. (Consider it a shared consequence.)

    As someone who is pro-life, it's the only form of abortion I wouldn't quibble with.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2006
  25. gomezcat

    gomezcat It's SIR Moderator to you Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In your defence, I made the same mistake. :eek: On a football board, if someone writes SD, we see the Chargers. If someone writes NE, I never see Nebraska!

    I am split on this issue if I am honest. I am not remotely religious (the only thing that means that I am agnostic, and not atheist, is that I don't know what or who started the Big Bang) and am generally liberal, so you would think that I am automatically pro-choice.
    The problem is that I see a foetus as a human being and consequently see abortion as killing of said foetus. I fully acknowledge the arguments about rape and so on and can't think of an easy answer to that one. I am also concerned about the psychological effects of abortion on the woman as they seem to get under-reported.
    I suppose that I have to come down on the side of pro-choice but it isn't a decision with which I am comfortable.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2006
  26. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm against abortion even in cases of rape and incest. They're both horrible things but it's still going to be a human life without a murderer's interference. It can be put up for adoption. I wonder if anyone knows someone who was conceived through rape . . . I bet someone here does, without realizing it.
  27. All_Around_Brown

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    Good points. The life at conception dogma hammered home by the religious is based on the definition of life as provided in the new testament as I understand it.

    So as far as "the morning after pill", it will have to be outlawed as well. It is in the timeframe of post-conception, pre-implantation. But according to those who want abortion outlawed, it would be unconstitutional. So, shirtsleeve, your acceptable methods aren't going to fly. Its either abstain, or carry to term.

    The real problem with SDs law is that it makes no exception for incest, rape, and other situtations. Its a recipe for disaster. Just another government intrusion into personal decisions. As I said, abortions won't stop. The oversight/experience of medical practitioners during the process will.
  28. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Thats cool. But don't come looking for handouts from me when you want the government to pay for those orphanages. Remember, you are representing the personal responsibility party now...so mothers should take personal responsibility instead of pawning the newborn off on the state. And if adoptions your best choice, I expect you to call every woman you know to volunteer to take those children into their homes in your community.

    As far as your rape/incest position...I find it absolutely sick.
  29. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Save the sperm.

    The belief that that which has the potential to be a human is human should support the idea that sperm have as many rights as fetuses. How do you distinguish between a sperm and the fetus at the early stages of development? Why should sperm have fewer rights?

    Do you believe a fetus has reason, which is a common defining characteristic of humankind? And how do you define what a human is? Is it simply a mass without reason that has some limited characteristcs of a human? If it's about the potential of the fetus, what about the potential of the sperm?

    Furthermore, what are the rights of the woman in this matter. I think it's BelichickFan who says even a raped woman should not be allowed to have an abortion; thus does he see women as simply incubators with no rights?

    Who is responsible for an unwanted child? Is the state responsible? What are the state's responsibilities? How much are you willing to spend to give this unwanted child a good life?

    Life is much, much more than a fetus, and I think some of you diminish what life is all about. Her body is part of a woman's life, and she has rights over it. To take shirtsleeve's ideas too far, if the government can tell a woman to leave a fetus untouched, can the government punish people for abusing their own bodies (for smoking, eat too much, drinking, etc.)? Why isn't the fetus part of the women's body if it needs her body to survive?

    There is no simple answer, but as far as I'm concerned the anti-abortion people have no case until they come out strongly for programs to help those who are out of the womb and need health care, safe communities, better education, jobs, etc. One reason it's so easy to be anti-abortion is that it costs nothing, unlike things like health care for kids.
  30. BelichickFan

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    Last time I checked there were waiting lists for adoptions. I looked into it when my wife had conception problems but ended up not needing to adopt. The only problem back then was the laws weren't tight enough to ensure that the birth mother couldn't come back and change here mind. Admitedly this was a few years ago but there wasn't an overabundence of babies looking to adopt.

    As for women who just have babies they can't support, I suggest they keep their legs closed.

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