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Scouts, Inc. AFC East Coaches Rank

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Oswlek, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    I didn't see a thread on this, but I though that some of you might be interested. Scouts, Inc. took anther step in their ongoing quest to make Miami out to be "the team to beat" in the AFC East by placing Belichick and Saban in a tie atop their AFC East coaches ranking. I wouild be happy to provide a link, but since it is a pay article it won't do much good. I would also be happy quote the section of the article discussing BB and Saban, but I am hesitant for copyright reasons.

    Their rationale consisted of two premises:

    * Belichick needs to prove that it wasn't really Romeo, Charlie and Mangini pulling the strings.

    * Saban has a "bunch of [college] wins" and guided an undermanned Miami team to within one game of the AFC East division title. He gives Saban credit for winning in NE and ends with this line: "Barring injuries, the Dolphins, lead by Saban, could be the team to beat in the East. "

    Now, I vehemently disagree with those that believe Miami is going to challenge NE this year. They were really a 6-10 team last year that fluked their way to a better record, and will be lucky to match the 9-7 record from last year. Oddly enough, the whole "team X wins 3-4 games more than they should have due to unusual circumstances and causes analysts to crow about how they are coming on only to be surprisingly poor the following year" thing happens every year! Yet people still fall into the trap.

    That said, it is still plausible that Miami be decent this year. It is not, however, plausible to suggest that Saban is on the same level as BB. I'm not even sure why you would even try.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  2. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I really can't wait to see Miami this year. I am so convinced that Daunte Culpepper is going to be a subtraction rather than an addition. It makes you wish (based on how the season ended anyway) that BB had played the starters in the last game so that we would have won, finished 11-5 and Miami would have been at 9-7. Then we would not have had to hear all this crapola about how Miami finished so strong last year, they are now the team to beat, blah, blah blah.

    EDIT - Sorry I should have said Miami would be at 8-8, which is what they really are.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  3. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Rookie

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    WOW. Everybody said Pats will suck without Crennal and Weis. Well BB goes on for the finest Coaching job he did last year in his life with all the problems and setbacks. Now its MANGINI who was the key not Belichick. Give me a break. :rolleyes:
  4. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    I have posted this on several other boards out there, but here is my take on Miami:

    Miami is the quintassential example of a team that had a few breaks to give it a better record than you would expect, and then people using that improper baseline for the following year’s projections.

    Previous examples of this include 04 Bills, 04 Falcons, 03 Dallas and 01 Pats (please don't shoot me for this, but they are)

    That was a 6-10 team last year that caught a few lucky breaks. Just a cursary glance at their “remarkable†run to end the season shows the following:

    * Against SD, even though they had the advantage of knowing every line call (SD’s coaches decided not to change them for this game even though Miami had the ex-OL coach) they barely pulled it out.

    * Buffalo blew a 23-3 3rd quarter lead because they started coasting too early.

    * Brooks Bollinger had this line at Miami!

    C/ATT YDS TD INT
    28/42 327 2 0

    The Jets had a 1st and 5 on the 14 with just over a minute to go in a game decided by 4 points. Another skate against a bad team.

    * And the Pats nearly won playing scond and third stringers for 3 quarters. This included a QB that hadn’t played 3 full quarters since high school, a practice squad WR playing CB, etc.

    I see Miami being an improved team, but taking a step backwards recordwise. I will be shocked if they win more than 8 games.
  5. Brady-To-Branch

    Brady-To-Branch Rookie

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    Saban is overrated and his "win now" approach to personnel will kill his team.
  6. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    #18 Jersey

    Belichick has a bunch of [Super Bowl] wins and guided an undermanned New England team to the AFC East divisional title and a huge win in the wild card round. He gives credit for Belichick winning in Miami and ends with this line, "I must be drunk to write this crap."
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  7. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I would say that shouldn't Parcells prove that it wasn't BB who was behind all those Giant championships? What has Saban proven in the Pros which rates him a tie to BB, who has won 3 superbowls. How did Romeo do last year in Cleveland. Not to diss him, but it wasn't like everyone was amazed at the "turnaround" he has done there. Seems like everyone is giving the benefit of the doupt to Saban and Miami, afterall, they are so, so, sexy.
  8. Pat_Nasty

    Pat_Nasty Rookie

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    My favorite part was when Ken Moll, the author of the list, says BB loses points with him because unlike BB, "Most head coaches have had to deal with the dilemma of an injured star quarterback at least sometime during an NFL season."

    I think that happened in 2001, and I think BB handled it brilliantly.
  9. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    He also had to deal with it last year, although nobody talks about it because NE players and coaches don't talk about it.
  10. patsacolachick

    patsacolachick Rookie

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    I saw this posted on a Jets website & I was amazed at how vehemently the Jets fans were dissing this article-even fans that feel BB stabbed them in the back so long ago can't stomach seeing Saban listed next to BB. What a joke that writer is.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2005
  11. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where's Pujo?
    Is he going to defend this?
    I mean where is the logic with placing a 3 time Super Bowl winner in a tie with a second year coach.
  12. Ichiro

    Ichiro Rookie

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    Isn't Scouts Inc. run by Dennis Green's son?

    There are a lot of coaches and personnel men in the NFL who hate Belichick. I see it in post-game handshakes, off-hand remarks, and media scrooges like Green's son who couldn't make it as a real scout.

    Some examples:
    Post-game handshake with Tony Dungy after 2004 divisional playoff game. It seemed like Dungy wanted to talk and Belichick wanted no part. I love it.

    Bill Polian's remarks about Vinatieri to the Globe a few weeks ago. I found it funny that Polian went out of his way to say he admires both Kraft and Pioli but curiously left Belichick out. Obviously, both this and the Dungy handshake is Belichick's f*** you to the Colts from having the rules changed post Super Bowl 38. Also, didn't I hear that Polian was celebrating like crazy in the Press Box after the Colts won last year in Foxboro? Real classy Polian, try winning some real playoff games first.

    Brady blasting Schottenheimer after the San Diego loss last year. Somehow I believe that BB had more to do with this than Brady. I know that Marty and Dungy are very good friends and are very popular across the league and the media for allowing access to their team and players.

    These are just a few things that come to mind. Not only has Bill Belichick refused to play the media game, he does not want to be friends with certain coaches just to be nice, especially when they whine and complain.

    So we have people (including Scout's Inc, which sounds like an actual scouting service, even though its not) who want to evaluate Belichick not on his innovations, X's and O's or anything to do with what happens on the football field. They want to rip him because "he's not nice". Sounds like High School to me, and I hate it how the media refuses to see the substance behind BB's actions.
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The logic that a HC who has won 3 SB has to win again with other assistants is tied with a HC who hasn't made the playoffs yet is weird . . . to say the least.
  14. PlattsFan

    PlattsFan Rookie

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    Well, I guess it's true that you can't pin any Nick Saban Super Bowl wins on stellar assistants. I'll give him that ...
  15. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Awesome point! If Ken Moll read your response I'm sure he would vomit.
  16. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    What the heck has Nick Saban proven yet? In college he won a national title, but Pete Carroll won 2 of them and he was fair to middling (at best) as an NFL coach. In the NFL, he has coached one season, in which his team improved from a 4-12 record to 9-7 (with an asterisk since the final game was played against a team 3rd stringers). But wait; in 2004 and for the first four games of 2005 the Dolphins didn't have Ricky Williams and for the rest of 2005 (in which they went 7-5) they did. In other words, without Ricky they were 6-14 and with him they were 7-5. So maybe Ricky is the genius?

    Obviously the last part is facetious, but I know I am preaching to the choir here when I remind everyone that the Dolphins 6 game season ending winning streak was done against four teams with losing records and one with nothing to play for and playing it's backups. Only one of the wins was against a winning team, San Deigo, and they ended their season 1-3.

    The bottom line for me is that Saban may turn out to be next great NFL head coach, but to me their is absolutely no evidence to support that yet.
  17. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    To Scouts Inc: Bull****
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  18. R_T26

    R_T26 Banned

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    This really pisses me off. Belichick will go down as one of the best ever, what the F U CK has Saban done. He won 1/2 a national championship where he didnt have to play USC (would have been smoked). he also went 9-7, one win against pats 3rd stringers with a Lalst palce schedule. pats played steelers and colts while the dolphins played the browns and titans. If the Dolphins do happen to win the division they will make saban out to be a demi- god. I sweaR, if you even shook BB's hand your considerd a genius. What about guys like Jim Mora Jr. who went to the NFCCG his rookie season, he was not considered a genius. BB has won 2 SB's as a DC, went to 1 his only year as the DC of the pats, and won 3 Sb's woth thePats. F u ck saban, that underbite douche bag,thT TEAM IS THE OLDEST D INB THE WORDL BECAUSE HE WANTS TO WIN NOW. AND IS SELLING OUT THE DOLPHINS FUTURE.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2006
  19. feelthepain

    feelthepain Banned

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    I really hate to interupt all the belly aching and self pitty thats consuming this thread, but who cares what one person thinks?? It's an opinion. Every defense of BB I've read so far is based on what happened in the past. This article has to do with the upcoming season and who will be the best this coming year. BB has had an unbeliveable run the last 4 seasons, he's a great coach, but before 2001 what did he do that was so great?? Nothing, you people also forget how much luck has gone int the Pats winning so much. 3 or 4 key plays going the other way and the Pats could have 0 SB championships.

    Remember the dominance doesn't last forever, and sooner or later the reporters will get it right. You people can hang on to your dreams as long as you wish, but there are no guarantees. One injury and you could be the worst team i the division. You also have to understand that teams start to figure you out and when they do, it's over!! Look at Indy last year, oh they are going undefeated, they will win the SB. Then came SD and they started a trend that would end Indys chances of even winning a Playoff game much less a conference championship or SB. The more you win the more people want to beat you. Teams don't prepare for NE the same way they prepare for Arizona, they get more fired up, hit a little harder, run a little faster. The Pats are at the end of a long run, there is no way they can maintain the dominance, it's too hard.
  20. patsacolachick

    patsacolachick Rookie

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