Scouting LBs?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by cstjohn17, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 Supporter Supporter

    #54 Jersey

    In the good old days we looked at players 6'1 - 6'3 and 240-255 for ILB and players 6'2 - 6'5 and 245-265 for OLB. In the brave new world do we start the look at more traditional MLBs and OLBs?

    - Signed,

  2. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

    #54 Jersey

    Probably not, I'm guessing our D will stay fluid, and will interchange between the 4-3 and the 3-4 when needed - the last thing you want is a roster half full with players who can't play on every down or who need to come out when you play certain looks.
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Agreed. We stick to the same kind of player, perhaps with a little more emphasis on players that can handle a change of schemes. We're not going to a Colts/TB kind of 4-3 scheme with smaller, speedy players. Philly runs a 4-3 and has competed with us for a lot of DE/LB types.

    Sergio Kindle, Greg Romeus, Ricky Sapp, Brandon Lang and Jerry Hughes are all worth considering at OLB. Brandon Spikes, Rolando McClain, Micah Johnson and Eric Norwood are all worth considering at SILB.

    From what I've seen so far of this year's class, I still think Connor Barwin was the best Pats OLB prospect to come out since DeMarcus Ware and Terrell Suggs.
  4. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 Supporter Supporter

    #3 Jersey

    And yet BB still didn't have him ranked high enough. . . . :(
  5. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    We did the Florida Troy game yesterday and Lang was absolutely swallowed whole by the Gator Oline. The only time we heard from Lang was when he got the personal foul near the end zone that cost his team. (Very similair to what happened to McClain against Va. Tech.)

    The guy to watch at OLB/DE is Carlos Dunlap a Jr. DE at Florida. 6'6" and 270 lbs. He runs well, he is a superior pass rusher and he shows some interest in playing the run. He could excel at either OLB or DE in our system.

    The guy to watch at ILB is McCalin. This kid is awesome in coverage and yet shows excellent instincts and mashes really well in the running game. He could excel at either ILB or OLB in our system.

    I have taken Norwood (too short) and Spikes(too one dimensinal) off my potential Pats draft list.
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Not sure why Norwood is too short to play ILB for us. He's definitely too short for OLB, which is why I didn't list him there.

    I have questions about Lang and Ricky Sapp being stout enough to hold the edge and play the run for us, but I haven't seen enough to rule them out.

    Do you really believe that Carlos Dunlap could play 3-4 OLB? From what I've heard and seen he's more like 280-290 than 270#. I'm not sure if he's more in the Julius Peppers mold or the Mario Williams mold.
  7. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I was on the field with him Saturday and Florida can list him at whatever weight they want, but he is much lighter than 280-290. I think he will run in the 4.6-4.7 range at the combine. I see him as more Peppers than a Mario Williams, but not as good against the run at this point in his career as either of those two were. Part of the problem is that Florida will be playing ahead most of the year, which will force opposing to throw a lot and not give Dunlap a chance to grow as a run defender. Alabama and maybe LSU are about the only teams I think can run on Florida.

    I watched Lang a lot Saturday and the thing was, if he didn't get the first step on the Florida Oline, he was done. When Florida ran at him, he really struggled. He had a tough time shedding and making a play.

    I have not seen Sapp play this year yet, but I will make a point of scoping him out.
  8. borisman

    borisman On the Game Day Roster

    Clemson plays BC this Saturday so you'll be able to see Sapp sooner rather than later. I hope he goes up vs. Castonzo all day long. Castonzo is a future first round LT.
  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Any one seen much of TCU's Jerry Hughes play? I haven't. He's 6'3" and 257#, led the nation in sacks last year (I think), and is often mentioned as a likely 3-4 OLB conversion prospect. Tony Pauline listed him first under his "risers" from last week, and had this to say:

    "Jerry Hughes/OLB-DE/TCU: Hughes' performance in the opener against Virginia was terrific. He posted 11 tackles, 2.5 tackles-for-loss and another 1.5 sacks. The ability to make plays in space or run down ballcarriers in pursuit excites scouts. Hughes lines up in a three-point stance for TCU but is widely considered an outside linebacker prospect by most in the scouting community."

    Risers/Sliders for 2010 NFL Draft - NFL -
  10. reamer

    reamer Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Anyone seen the UConn games? Apparently their DE Witten is absolutely tearing it up, with seven sacks through the first two games. He seems to have good size, but I can't find video online, and I'm completely unfamiliar with his style of play. Still, that's pretty impressive pass-rushing.

    After the Mayo injury, I'm desperate to bring in another stud inside 'backer. As much as I love Guyton, I just don't think he's a full-time starter. He needs to remain a match-up only, down-and-distance sort of guy, where I think he excels. Spikes and McClain are probably out of our range, but Micah Johnson or Eric Norwood could potentially make good SILB if we play more 34, and I'm sure cerebral speed-demon, hit and run MLB are out there if we continue to favor the 43 in the following years. Thoughts?
  11. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I haven't seen the UConn kid. Would he project to OLB or ILB?

    I know this probably sounds like a broken record, but I think this is the offseason BB actually goes after fully fixing the LB position. Mayo/Guyton/Crable was a big step forward in 2008, but there's obviously still a lot of work to be done to fill out the position. A lot of people on this board wanted him to do it last year at both OLB and ILB. McKenzie will presumably add to the ILB rotation, but there's still plenty of room, and we have 4 day 1 picks.

    BB obviously decided that the secondary took priority over the LB corps last offseason. He cleaned house, getting rid of Hobbs and bringing in Bodden, Springs, McGowan, Butler and Chung. So far, his moves look like they will result in a much better secondary. But the LB corps has become the achilles heel of the defense.

    I don't think it's unreasonable for BB to use 2 out of our top 4 picks on LBs in the upcoming draft. There are a lot of potential prospects:

    - OLB: Kindle, Hardy, Hughes, Lang, Sapp, Romeus, Selvie, etc.
    - ILB: Spikes, McCain, Norwood, Johnson, etc.
  12. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    My LB list is much more Patriot specific.

    OLB Dumlap of Florida; Romeus of Pitt
    ILB McClain of Alabama; Pawalek of Baylor

    I saw Lang and Spikes up close on Saturday and both made me yawn.
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I'm not convinced Dunlap is an OLB, and I doubt he'll be available in our territory. Romeus interests me considerably.

    Either McClain or Norwood would be fine with me at SILB.
  14. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

    quote "I don't think it's unreasonable for BB to use 2 out of our top 4 picks on LBs in the upcoming draft. There are a lot of potential prospects:"

    Would you rather we trade up and take a can't miss LB (If there is one BB sees as such) or stay put and take two. We have the picks to move up.
    It would be nice to get that Ray Lewis type for 10 years.
  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Don't know at this point. "Ray Lewis type"s don't come around very often. Lots of top 10 LBs have been less than all-world. If BB were convinced that a particular player was the real deal and was worth it I'd consider it, but I think we're doing just fine picking up comparable talent more cheaply and in greater quantities in the 20-50 range.
  16. Taxed in Maine

    Taxed in Maine On the Game Day Roster

    We already have him in J. Mayo - I wouldn't waste the money or the picks to move up like that.
    Remember they will probably replace Seymour with a high pick, and one of Mankins or Neal will probably need a replacement.

    I really liked what they did this past draft with the 4 seconds. All four of those kids look like they are going to be players.

    As for Linebackers, if they were to take two, I think it will be more like an OLB early and another MLB in the middle rounds.

    I do have on name I will throw out that I think needs to be on the list.

    AJ Edds - Iowa

    A.J. Edds, , NFL Draft - -
  17. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 Supporter Supporter

    #3 Jersey

    FYI—if both are still wanted, both can be kept if 2010 is uncapped.
  18. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks Supporter Supporter

    Mayo and Guyton were 242 and 245 respectively when drafted/signed as rookies. I don't expect NE to look for players much lighter, Mayo reported he started camp at 250. The height isn't really changing much, though OLB may go a bit taller.
  19. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I think BB prefers OLB's that are 6'5" or taller and around 260 plus pounds, provided they are strong, can set a firm edge, can cover and can run well.

    He will settle for less, if they have something special about them. IE: Thomas speed.
  20. SidelineSid

    SidelineSid Practice Squad Player

    I like the fact that you are accounting for our O-line needs. I think that we should look for a strong offensive inside lineman. Worst case scenario, the rookie would be replacing either Neal or Mankins. Best case scenario, we can move him over to center and upgrade over Koppen. Koppen's contract expires about a year or two after Mankins and Neal so interior line is a consideration.

    That said, I think one of our high 2nd round picks could get us a first rate lineman (i'm thinking either guard or center). With our first round pick, I say we go for the best defensive player available. 3-4 defensive ends aren't exactly sexy picks so you could see one drop in the draft. I know that Kansas City's Tyson Jackson went early, but Pittsburgh's Ziggy Hood went very late.

    I doubt that one of the marque hybrid linebackers will be available by the time that we pick, so I think it comes down to a lineman. Which one do you guys want: Offensive or Defensive lineman?

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