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SCOTUS to rule: non-JudeoChristian monument, public park

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Supreme Court hears Utah park monument case - CNN.com

    The nut of it is, a sect with "seven aphorisms" wants to put up a monument on public parkland.

    Well, you know me, I'm agin' it. Except the thing is... there's already a Ten Commandments monument in said parkland.

    So, we finally seem to have come to the point where government accomodation of religion will begin to gore the wrong ox... any reactions?

    PFnV
     
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was listening to this on NPR yesterday, but did not get to hear why the town is not allowing it.. interesting case, this SCOTUS decision sounds like damned if I do and damned if I do not.. mondo bizarro...

    About Summum

    Here are the 7 Principals..

     
  3. PatsFanInVa

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    The questions from the justices are great... it's like...

    "So how is this different from the ten commandments? It sounds like you're saying this one, and not that one..."

    It's just very straightforward. It's being argued as free speech, because the town's argument is "we get to pick and choose who can put what speech in our parkland."

    But by virtue of choosing to let in one religion, the counterargument is, you have to let in all of them.

    I think the public glorification, on public land, of the "Seven Aphorisms" of Summa should greatly gratify those who believe in "freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion."

    If not, it clarifies just how specious a distinction that is :)
     
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't understand it, so I'm with you PatsFan-----
     
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Sounds like any other religion.
    As long as the monument is attractive and good art.......
     
  6. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    A distinction can be made between the two in that the 10 Commandments are not just religious, but historic as well. IE there were the 10 Commandments and then after a whole lot of begetting there were the laws of the state of Utah. There's no way you can argue that this Summum cult's laws helped define present law in the state.

    Of course the town should consider a monument to the US Constitution, the code of Hammurabi and maybe a plaque dedicated to English common law to not seem like total hypocrites.
     
  7. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    makes no difference to me. The more the better. I never agreed with my Jewish friends and family who got all upset about Nativity scenes so now that Im a Christian I love all kinds of displays and wont get wrapped up in the politics of it. Like Wistah, said, as long as its attractive, and doesnt get all Maplethorpe on anybody, display and enjoy.
     
  8. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Personally my thought is neither the 10 commandments nor this should be on gov't land.... but if you are going allow one you have to allow them all.

    Assuming the S.Ct rules for the Summum, the next question will be what does Pleasant Grove do? Allow the monument or take down the 10 commandments?
     
  9. PatsFanInVa

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    I guess since the Summum's case is that they are claiming freedom of speech, all they need to show is that this common public land is used for similar acts of free speech, and that their speech doesn't violate any of the few exceptions to said free speech (i.e., they are not libelous or slanderous in an objective analysis.)

    But let's think about the establishment clause as well, since it has already come into play in the court arguments: if you cannot establish a religion, your argument is that the distinction is, THIS particular religion established the state, not vice versa.

    In other words, you cannot establish a religion except for the majority religion (the one that is seen as establishing the State -- like the Church of England was in England, at the time of the Founders' writing.) This argument flies in the face of the Establishment Clause. They clearly wrote against the establishment of ANY religion, majority or minority, predating the State or post-dating it. (Anyway the Summa guys claim that the "Seven Aphorisms" were the first tablets that Moses smashed... so to them, the Aphorisms led to the Ten Commandments, beget, beget, beget, then Utah.)

    I would argue against favoring one or another religion based on a historic role in the founding of a town, a state, or a country, based on the American idea that you don't establish ANY religion (which is different from saying okay, we'll only establish this ONE... and it'll be a certain batch of religions, not one sect.)

    PFnV
     

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