Scott Pioli was the problem

[PatsFanSince74]

Most likely, Pioli was a bum. It was probably his idea for Guss Scott, remembe him? Dexter Reid? The late guy from LSU? Cedric Cobbs?

I can't think of any just outright whiffs since he's been gone. Brace maybe drafted too high and the jury is out on Price still.

BB has drafted guys who seem more like a sure thing than the fliers that were drafted with Pioli. I can't prove it was all his fault, but the stiffs he's taking in KC don't speak well for him.

As for the "yeah, 3 SBs, so he must be good", maybe they were in spite of him, not because of him.

And yes, I know BB has to sign off on them, but if Pioli is pushing someone, maybe BB didn't feel like raining on his parade.

Unbelievable.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes but Gronk and Tate had great production and there was no reason to think they wouldn't be 100%.

Berry is an easy pick, they were picking at the top of the 1st round. Mccluster is a flier, too light to play RB consistently. Arenas is too slow to play CB, at best a PR. Asamoah is a guard who will probably be a JAG. Moeiki was constantly injured if I recall correctly. Lewis I don't know.

Time will tell but I think Pioli was likely a bum.

Seriously. Pioli and his scouting staff spend 100s of hours scouting and evaluating these players. Do you seriously think that before they ever played an NFL down, you know better and can conclude their evaluation is wrong?
I have a strong feeling you are going to come back with some crap about you could be a GM if you wanted to, so when you respond please detail the means you have used to evaluate these guys. Feel free to just say 'I read what people wrote' rather than listing the sources and say I saw him play once instead of listing what game, or drive or play it was.

 

[Ring 6]

Unbelievable.

Tremendous use of the 10 character minimum.

 

[larryo]

I have to put more stock in what the team says his role is than what you want it to be, dont I? Why would they lie?

Yes they would.

I have never seen an article saying that he is not involved in the draft process so it's more an ommision if anything. For what reason I don't know. I just find it hard to believe that he's not involved. Guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes but Gronk and Tate had great production and there was no reason to think they wouldn't be 100%.

Berry is an easy pick, they were picking at the top of the 1st round. Mccluster is a flier, too light to play RB consistently. Arenas is too slow to play CB, at best a PR. Asamoah is a guard who will probably be a JAG. Moeiki was constantly injured if I recall correctly. Lewis I don't know.

Time will tell but I think Pioli was likely a bum.

You just belittled Moeaki for his injury history, while excusing an entire season lost to a back injury and a senior year lost to an ACL injury. Think before you post.

As for Arenas and Asamoah, I'm sure your evaluation skills are brilliant. Have you submitted your resume to the Patriots yet? BB's players "seem" more like a sure thing....

Also, if you don't even know the players drafted, you shouldn't have brought up the draft in the first place.

 

[SanAngeloState]

You just belittled Moeaki for his injury history, while excusing an entire season lost to a back injury and a senior year lost to an ACL injury. Think before you post.

As for Arenas and Asamoah, I'm sure your evaluation skills are brilliant. Have you submitted your resume to the Patriots yet? BB's players "seem" more like a sure thing....

Also, if you don't even know the players drafted, you shouldn't have brought up the draft in the first place.

I only did't know one player.

A one off injury is different than a player being injured every year with multiple injuries over his entire collegiate career.

My evaluatin skills on Arenas are brilliant. He'll be a dime CB at best. He's too slow.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes they would.

I have never seen an article saying that he is not involved in the draft process so it's more an ommision if anything. For what reason I don't know. I just find it hard to believe that he's not involved. Guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

Yes they would what?
Although you may not have read the article, it was written that Reese was not going to be involved in the draft, and would be focussed on contract negotiations.
Now, BB as known Reese for 35 years, and brought him here as an advisor. I am sure that Reese doesnt sit in an office and play solitaire, and I am sure that BB values his opinion. Most teams meet to have open discussions regarding players, the draft, etc. I am sure Reese sits in on those and offers and opinion, just as he will when they cut down the roster. But he is not drafting players, and making decisions, or taking charge of the scouts and the scouting process. He is in the room. Pioli 'ran the room', and my understanding, backed up by years of what is reported out of Foxboro is that Pioli was in charge of delegating the work, and making recomendations which BB passed final approval on. The only murkiness in the situation was that BB taught Pioli every aspect of the job himself, so what Pioli brought to the table usually fit what BB wanted brought.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, it's sounding like a Jets thread.

Thats OK, as soon as any rookie struggles in any manner, you will get the overexaggeration in the other direction.

 

[Deus Irae]

I only did't know one player.

A one off injury is different than a player being injured every year with multiple injuries over his entire collegiate career.

A back injury so severe as to cost an entire season is far more concerning than a few sprains and boo boos, and is certainly a "flier". The same goes for a popped ACL.

My evaluatin skills on Arenas are brilliant. He'll be a dime CB at best. He's too slow.

You go, boy!

Of course, they took him as much for his special teams skills, which you've chosen to ignore.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

A back injury so severe as to cost an entire season is far more concerning than a few sprains and boo boos. The same goes for a popped ACL.



You go, boy!

Of course, they took him as much for his special teams skills, which you've chosen to ignore.

I lol'd btw...

I have no clue why after 2 preseason games some of you guys think we have won enough to bash pioli when during his tenure we won superbowl(s). Our current scouting staff needs to draft/pick up some key pieces to a SB caliber team before this discussion even becomes reasonable.

 

[JackBauer]

There's little doubt the Patriots recent drafts have been much improved since Pioli left. But to attribute this simply to Pioli's departure without more concrete evidence is a post hoc fallacy.

It could be due to our very own wunderkind, Caserio, or perhaps Reese, though I'm not sure how much input the latter has on drafting decisions. It could also be related to certain drafts looking worse than others due to the relative strengths and weaknesses of the prospects coming out in any given draft (e.g. the 2007 draft, which everyone agrees was terrible).

Pioli's draft for the Chiefs looks pretty good so far, but naturally more of his selections will be starters off the bat. That's the luxury of drafting for a crappy team (aside from having higher selections).

 

[larryo]

Yes they would what?
Although you may not have read the article, it was written that Reese was not going to be involved in the draft, and would be focussed on contract negotiations.
Now, BB as known Reese for 35 years, and brought him here as an advisor. I am sure that Reese doesnt sit in an office and play solitaire, and I am sure that BB values his opinion. Most teams meet to have open discussions regarding players, the draft, etc. I am sure Reese sits in on those and offers and opinion, just as he will when they cut down the roster. But he is not drafting players, and making decisions, or taking charge of the scouts and the scouting process. He is in the room. Pioli 'ran the room', and my understanding, backed up by years of what is reported out of Foxboro is that Pioli was in charge of delegating the work, and making recomendations which BB passed final approval on. The only murkiness in the situation was that BB taught Pioli every aspect of the job himself, so what Pioli brought to the table usually fit what BB wanted brought.

Yeah I messed that up. Don't know why they would lie but like I said I didn't see that article. I'm pretty sure Reese who was a GM for years can "run a room" if he wants but he's 61 and that's probably not his thing these days. I tend to believe Pat Kirwan because this is a guy who has sat in room and had these discussions with Belichick and he believes Reese is involved and so do I and it seems you do too. I never said he was Pioli but just that he is involved. I hope a guy who was a receivers coach 3 years ago isn't the lone voice.

 

[Ring 6]

There's little doubt the Patriots recent drafts have been much improved since Pioli left. But to attribute this simply to Pioli's departure without more concrete evidence is a post hoc fallacy.

It could be due to our very own wunderkind, Caserio, or perhaps Reese, though I'm not sure how much input the latter has on drafting decisions. It could also be related to certain drafts looking worse than others due to the relative strengths and weaknesses of the prospects coming out in any given draft (e.g. the 2007 draft, which everyone agrees was terrible).

Pioli's draft for the Chiefs looks pretty good so far, but naturally more of his selections will be starters off the bat. That's the luxury of drafting for a crappy team (aside from having higher selections).

It could also be because the last 2 drafts are still in the high hopes stages.
It could also because we had a lot of higher picks in these drafts.
It could also be that people think the drafts that included Welker and Moss were bad.
It could also be that a 3rd round pick from 2006 that never contributed much is viewed as worse than a 3rd round pick who hasnt seen the field yet, etc, etc.

You have to take these kind of things with a grain of salt. Remember when the Patriots were building a dynasty and their combined decisions added up to most successful franchise of the just completed, and possibly any, decade, we still are faced with fans who want to accuse BB of negligently being asleep at the wheel for not drafting more LBs. Its all relative. If you want to find something to whine about its there. If you want to overblow something into more positive than it is thats there too

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah I messed that up. Don't know why they would lie but like I said I didn't see that article. I'm pretty sure Reese who was a GM for years can "run a room" if he wants but he's 61 and that's probably not his thing these days. I tend to believe Pat Kirwan because this is a guy who has sat in room and had these discussions with Belichick and he believes Reese is involved and so do I and it seems you do too. I never said he was Pioli but just that he is involved. I hope a guy who was a receivers coach 3 years ago isn't the lone voice.

Can you link where Kirwan said that?
I dont know what your point is.
You seem to be applying Reese for a job. Whether or not you think he would be good for the job is not going to convince me that the Patriots secretly have him doing something else than they say he is andhave some bizarre reason to hidethat.
I don't know where you get that we agree?????
Reese is an employee in football operations. When football operations is in involved in the draft he will not be locked in a closet, and will offer advice. That is miles and miles away from being responsible for the draft.

 

[larryo]

Can you link where Kirwan said that?
I dont know what your point is.
You seem to be applying Reese for a job. Whether or not you think he would be good for the job is not going to convince me that the Patriots secretly have him doing something else than they say he is andhave some bizarre reason to hidethat.
I don't know where you get that we agree?????
Reese is an employee in football operations. When football operations is in involved in the draft he will not be locked in a closet, and will offer advice. That is miles and miles away from being responsible for the draft.

I tap out.

 

[SVN]

quite an unbelievable thread ...pioli was here when we got wilfork/samuel/seymour/warren and above all brady. He didnt hit a homerun in every draft but no team does and bill is equally in this.
Most importantly IMO he and bill never traded the future for the current as a result we always have additional picks to gamble with.
Jets for e.g have made some good moves but look at their roster depth ...

i see no need why we are bashing pioli or anyone who was with the pats and contributed to the most succesful team of the decade.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Last year's draft is looking better as Brandon Tate rounds into shape and the 2nd year guys look better than anticipated on defense. This year's draft is unfolding as a home run with the Tight Ends, Zoltan the Impaler, McCourty and the LBs/DEs.

It's way early, but it makes you wonder if Dallas Parcells' husband Scott appears more and more like the culprit in recent drafts as he screws up the Chiefs in astounding ways.

Maybe we who blasted Coach Belichick should formally apologize.

Interesting point, in that the last two drafts sure seem like they both will be very good at a minimum. There may be something to that. Of course, this could be a Post Hoc Ergo Procter Hoc situation, where we assume before the fact therefore because of the fact. May or may not be so.

 

[Richard Camembert]

quite an unbelievable thread ...pioli was here when we got wilfork/samuel/seymour/warren and above all brady. He didnt hit a homerun in every draft but no team does and bill is equally in this.
Most importantly IMO he and bill never traded the future for the current as a result we always have additional picks to gamble with.
Jets for e.g have made some good moves but look at their roster depth ...

i see no need why we are bashing pioli or anyone who was with the pats and contributed to the most succesful team of the decade.

Yeah, I agree.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I don't know who is responsible for what picks but I do know this...the last couple years' drafts are far better than the preceding drafts, excepting the year we traded #2 for Welker and #4 Moss, an excellent use of picks in a so-so draft class. Also, trading fwd makes a given year look worse than it is.

In prior years our #2 picks sucked. Bethel, our deceased DL, Chad the loser...
Second round should be productive, e.g. Milloy & The Twig.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I think the poor drafts were also due to the ex-coordinators, who personally worked out a lot of those busts. That 2006 draft class is the worst ever in Belichick's tenure, and they were personally worked out by his coaching assistants.