Scott Pioli Stays in KC???? [1/4 update: two sides agree to part ways]

[MoLewisrocks]

Unless I missed it in the article, the author ignored the fact that Gonzalez wanted out of K.C. and was threatening a/k/a pondering retirement.

No, he wasn't. That was 2008. When Pioli was hired he said he wanted to wait and talk to the new HC. Even after he did, this is what he said...

Gonzalez even told new general manager Scott Pioli and new head coach Todd Haley that, "I'm on board. If you guys want me here, I'm going to play ball for you ... [but] ... Look, if you guys want to trade me, go ahead and do it. I'm on board with that too." Via NFL.com.

Much like Waters he quickly became disenchanted with the new HC. He wanted to play for a contender. He wanted a committment to improving the defense and he wanted a competitive QB and mindset on offense. KC never shopped him in 2009. And he never threatened to retire. In fact they only decided to do a deal after Atlanta approached them and offered a 2nd rounder (albeit in 2010 so the equivalent of a 3rd rounder). Pioli got caught up on value. He had nothing to replace Gonzalez with, and he simply decided a pick for a 32 year old TE was more valuable than an all pro TE for his new franchise QB... Haley signed off on the trade because he thought he could turn Bowe around. His specialty was troubled young WR's. He tended to butt heads with veterans be they OL or WR or TE. Even butted heads with Warner in AZ although Warner was able to rise above it and make Haley look better than he ever was. And not that Ben isn't a handful and willful, but rumor has it he has a car idling for the opportunity to take Haley to the airport for a one way trip.

The following season they landed Moeaki in the draft and that helped Charlie get things turned around. Unfortunately not only did Haley manage to run Charlie off as that season ended, he caused Moeaki to be lost for all of 2011 after he decided to play all his starters in the week 4 pre season game because damn it, he wanted a win. He ended up with one more of many losses to come in part due to injury... And yet, compared to Cassel and Pioli he remained relatively teflon coated in the minds of those idiot fans in KC who should have been flying fire Haley banners by the end of 2010.

 

[Ring 6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

I have told you 5 times that was not public information. I tools you our came from someone I know. Believe what you want, I don't care.
However, you continue to avoid showing proof of 3 things you said that ARE public knowledge, out would be if they happened.
You may out may not want to believe what I was told in a personal conversation, and I don't care, but you made VERIFIABLE statements, 3 of them, and your refusal to provide verification at this point equates to admitting you made them up. Why is a mystery to me but given your attitude here out makes some sense why you would make things up in an attention seeking ploy.


Posted from Patsfans.com App for Android

Nobody seeks more attention here than you with your know - it - all -attitude.

Now youve come here with this preposterous story about Weis. And, you claim BB and Crennel are tight as clams despite 2 other posters besides myself saying that they read there was a conflict at the owners meeting. So, where is link saying that BBs and Crennels relationship has as good as BB and Weis?

Back up your claims or shut up.

again you have no argument so you move the goalposts.
Get this straight. I made no comment about BB and crenell being tight, I said you are wrong that BB said NO when asked if crenell would be a good coach.
You know you are wrong because you keep changing the discussion. no need to be so emotional, just prove he said it if you can.


As far as weis for the 6th time, it was no public information, and I don't care is you believe it, I offered it as data, not part of an argument.




Posted from Patsfans.com App for Android

 

[Triumph]

again you have no argument so you move the goalposts.
Get this straight. I made no comment about BB and crenell being tight, I said you are wrong that BB said NO when asked if crenell would be a good coach.
You know you are wrong because you keep changing the discussion. no need to be so emotional, just prove he said it if you can.


As far as weis for the 6th time, it was no public information, and I don't care is you believe it, I offered it as data, not part of an argument.



Posted from Patsfans.com App for Android

Another one of your lies is that Im looking for attention.

We both joined this site in 2004 and you have over 75% (13,000) more posts than I do. Typical of you to make things up like the Wies fairy tale.

 

[Deus Irae]

That doesn't explain the Weis season. Same OL and OL coach (Muir)...

The 2010 OL had 3 new starters, as Lilja and Casey Wiegman were brought in, and Barry Richardson was given the starting role at RT.

 

[Ring 6]

Another one of your lies is that Im looking for attention.

Many people who are not just looking for attention have more posts than you. What they don't have is the track record of making things up in order to get attention.
You have made up:
1) That BB said NO when asked if Crenell would make a good HC
2) That other people have said it happened
3) That my argument was some made up thing about them being close when what I said was that statement is wrong
4) That Manning and Fisher didn't go to KC BECAUSE OF Pioli
just on this topic

We both joined this site in 2004 and you have over 75% (13,000) more posts than I do. Typical of you to make things up like the Wies fairy tale.

You can believe whatever you want, I am telling you what was told to me. Don't believe it, wipe it out of the conversation, and what are you left with? The exact same conversation with one less piece of information included that was never used to support any point, argument or stance, simply an attempt to pass on what I heard from a very, very reliable source.

Oh, and perhaps you have a different reason that attention seeking to make things up and argue like they are real, if so, just fill me in, and I'll accept its not attention seeking.

 

[Deus Irae]

No, he wasn't. That was 2008. When Pioli was hired he said he wanted to wait and talk to the new HC. Even after he did, this is what he said...

He was threatening (pondering) retirement at the end of the season. He was not threatening immediate retirement. That put the Chiefs in the position of either keeping him for one season and watching him call it a career or trading him and getting a nice pick in return.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

He was signed for 3 more seasons. And his threats as you portray them were directed towards the previous administration. He was willing to work with the incoming administration because he was a KC native. He just wanted to win.

Another piece written about the particular mistake made by Pioli in this case.

I'm not arguing that their OL wasn't part of the problem. They had lots of problems. Haley was just the biggest because he wasn't HC material, let alone for a GM intent on running a specific system. Unfortunately once the decision was made Pioli is a firm believer that a GM's job is to get the HC what he wants or says he needs.

How Pioli's first major trade set back the Chiefs | National Football Post

 

[Deus Irae]

He was signed for 3 more seasons. And his threats as you portray them were directed towards the previous administration. He was willing to work with the incoming administration because he was a KC native. He just wanted to win.

Another piece written about the particular mistake made by Pioli in this case.

I'm not arguing that their OL wasn't part of the problem. They had lots of problems. Haley was just the biggest because he wasn't HC material, let alone for a GM intent on running a specific system. Unfortunately once the decision was made Pioli is a firm believer that a GM's job is to get the HC what he wants or says he needs.

How Pioli's first major trade set back the Chiefs | National Football Post

He made the same comments after Pioli came on board. The threads talking about it were there on Chiefsplanet and elsewhere, and it was discussed on K.C. sports radio. This is not a hill worth dying on, though, so I'll just end this right here.

As for the OL, as I noted, it had 3 new starters in 2010, while you had said it was the same. That led to better protection in 2010, which let Cassel get more comfortable and helped with the running game as well. Wiegman over Niswanger was a tremendous upgrade at the center position, in particular, even though Wiegman was aging and fading fast. It's no surprise that Cassel had a much better season that year, regardless of the O.C..

 

[blackglass3]

And yet, compared to Cassel and Pioli he remained relatively teflon coated in the minds of those idiot fans in KC who should have been flying fire Haley banners by the end of 2010.

Do you, or anyone here, have any insight as to WHY Haley was so highly regarded in KC? Did they really think he was the person that should have been kept and Pioli/Cassel were the problems? Did I miss something?

I have a good friend who is a Steeler fan. He would always complain about Bruce Arends offense being too predictable. But when Haley was hired he was wary, and by Week 3 he was fully ready to admit the grass isn't always greener and was wishing for Arends to be back running the Steelers O.

 

[Triumph]

Many people who are not just looking for attention have more posts than you. What they don't have is the track record of making things up in order to get attention.

And there are folks with 17,000 posts who are attention whores.

You have made up:
1) That BB said NO when asked if Crenell would make a good HC

Thats what I read on the web. The link is gone like Ive already told you.

2) That other people have said it happened

Mo and WickedPissah said that they read there was a conflict with BB and Crennel. Thats what I said. You cannot read.

Furthermore, you go into attention whore mode and discount the Crennel - BB conflict and come up with something even more sensational.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson
I have heard from a very reliable source with a deep connection to BB and Mangini that BB and Weis were the ones who had a conflict and if Weis did not get the ND job, BB was not bringing him back.
I've heard nothing credible about BB/Crenell strife.

3) That my argument was some made up thing about them being close when what I said was that statement is wrong

Attention Whoring 101

Youve heard nothing credible so everyone else is wrong and youre right.

4) That Manning and Fisher didn't go to KC BECAUSE OF Pioli
just on this topic

Its all over sportsradio in KC.

You can believe whatever you want, I am telling you what was told to me. Don't believe it, wipe it out of the conversation, and what are you left with? The exact same conversation with one less piece of information included that was never used to support any point, argument or stance, simply an attempt to pass on what I heard from a very, very reliable source.

I dont believe it.

Just like I didnt believe a word from you about Maroney or the rest of NE Pats youve defended as good players that turned out to be busts.

Oh, and perhaps you have a different reason that attention seeking to make things up and argue like they are real, if so, just fill me in, and I'll accept its not attention seeking.

I just share what Ive read over the years.

I dont talk to imaginary people who work for the Patriots.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The 2010 OL had 3 new starters, as Lilja and Casey Wiegman were brought in, and Barry Richardson was given the starting role at RT.

Nature or nurture. That 2010 line reverted close to 2009 levels in 2011 when reshuffled in the absense of Waters. I think Charlie's playcalling and scheme had as much to do with their improved play as any additions did. Once Haley was back in charge they reverted to form under him.

 

[goheels22002]

Do you, or anyone here, have any insight as to WHY Haley was so highly regarded in KC? Did they really think he was the person that should have been kept and Pioli/Cassel were the problems? Did I miss something?

I have a good friend who is a Steeler fan. He would always complain about Bruce Arends offense being too predictable. But when Haley was hired he was wary, and by Week 3 he was fully ready to admit the grass isn't always greener and was wishing for Arends to be back running the Steelers O.

The Hunt family is pretty hands on and very emotional about their team. Haley, an offensive coordinator and a part of the Bill Parcells tree replaced defensive expert and ESPN wingnut in chief, Herm Edwards. The Chiefs flip-flopped between Defensive guy and Offensive guy like a metronome. They also go for the flavor of the month, overlooking the way certain guys exited their previous jobs.

Todd Haley had a bunch of characteristics the KC Chiefs wanted - he was an offensive coordinator known for his work with passing games, and he was familiar with the front office as a scout and personnel assistant. He did a good job in various stops identifying talent that would fit various offensive schemes. Problem was, he was about as stable as a vial of nitroglycerin. As DI pointed out, Haley is a capable coordinator but not cut out for the demands of being a head coach.

They over-reached again with Andy Reid this week who has all sorts of lamentable demons to overcome. Reid has not been successful since his Yoda, DC Jim Johnson, died, and his family situation is a complete and very sad mess. Maybe it will work out for him in a small media market.

 

[Ring 6]

And there are folks with 17,000 posts who are attention whores.

Perhaps so

Thats what I read on the web. The link is gone like Ive already told you.

Thats what you think you read. You didn't, and you just won't admit it.

Mo and WickedPissah said that they read there was a conflict with BB and Crennel. Thats what I said. You cannot read.

That has absolutely nothing to do with whether that comment was made.

Furthermore, you go into attention whore mode and discount the Crennel - BB conflict and come up with something even more sensational.

I do not care about any conflict you want to keep bringing up. I have not even discussed it.
You said BB said NO when asked if Crenell would make a good HC.
Stop thinking anything else having to do with those 2 men will rescue you from that comment being totally wrong.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson
I have heard from a very reliable source with a deep connection to BB and Mangini that BB and Weis were the ones who had a conflict and if Weis did not get the ND job, BB was not bringing him back.
I've heard nothing credible about BB/Crenell strife.

What is your point? I added a piece of information that I am aware of that I know was not public. I stated that I know of no stife between BB and Crenell. I did not state there was none, I stated I have heard of none.
If I was seeking attention with a comment that was made to me 9 years ago why would I have not brought it up for 9 years, and then mentioned it in passing, and made nothing of it, while you have brought it up a dozen times?

Attention Whoring 101

your major?

Youve heard nothing credible so everyone else is wrong and youre right.

The only one who is wrong is you. You made a statement that is wrong, and you have turned it into 50 posts instead of just saying "I thought I read BB said that but apparently I am wrong and don't remember correctly"

Its all over sportsradio in KC.

If that were the case there would be a link you could provide.
Manning never made a single comment about why he wasn't going to any of the choices he had, so you know that. "Joe from Topeka" isn't a valid source.

I dont believe it.

Do I need to tell you AGAIN that I don't care?

Just like I didnt believe a word from you about Maroney or the rest of NE Pats youve defended as good players that turned out to be busts.

Oh, brother........

I just share what Ive read over the years.

Which would be fine if you were capable of admitting your memory stinks when you cannot back it up. The problem is you get a stubborn idea in your head, post thinks you think may have happened, then won't admit it when you are wrong.

Again, show me any evidence that BB made a comment that would be considered stabbing his DC in the back. That would still be being talked about.
Show me any evidence that anyone said that Manning chose to not come to KC because of Pioli, and the same with Fisher.
We get it you hate Pioli, so you embellished. Just be a man and admit it.

I dont talk to imaginary people who work for the Patriots.

Didn't say it was anyone who works for the Patriots, it was someone very close to a highly placed coach on the staff.

You are embarassing yourself at this point, and should just move on.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nature or nurture. That 2010 line reverted close to 2009 levels in 2011 when reshuffled in the absense of Waters. I think Charlie's playcalling and scheme had as much to do with their improved play as any additions did. Once Haley was back in charge they reverted to form under him.

The line declined as Weigman aged further in 2011 and Brian Waters was replaced by a talented but inexperienced second year player. This is no surprise. What worsened the problem were the injuries to Moeaki and Charles.

I'm not a Haley fan, but your position on him seems pathological.

 

[weswelker#83]

Scott Pioli is gone

https://twitter.com/kcchiefs/status/290284112990838785