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Score 1 For Chris Christie

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Aug 4, 2011.

  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So, Harry, 13 and all of you who've supported Chris Christie and wished that he'd run for president - I now understand what you see in him.

    New Jersey’s governor Chris Christie has been known to spread a conservative agenda across the state. But a week ago he surprised both his supporters and his opponents when he defended his appointment of Muslim-American lawyer Sohail Mohammed to the state’s superior court. Talking Points Memo’s Josh Marshall flagged the gruff gov’s tirade against bigotry in his blog today.

    “It’s just unnecessary to be accusing this guy of things just because of his religious background,” Chrstie said at a press conference last week.

    When asked by a reporter about the threat of Sharia laws, Christie called the complaints “crap.” “Sharia Law has nothing to do with this at all, it’s crazy!” he said at the press conference. “The guy is an American citizen!,” he yelled. “Sharia Law business is just crap.” Watch the show for yourself above.


    New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie: “This Sharia Law Business Is Crap” - COLORLINES
  2. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    I respect a politician who makes decisions based on the issue.

    I have not agreed with every stance taken by Scott Brown, but . I feel he makes his decisions based on the issue.

    Martha Coakley... was a rubber stamp "LEFT" vs RIGHT VOTE
    in favor of the LEFT.

    Lets face it... the left and right are not correct 100% of the time.
    You need to decide based on the issue. Too many base their decisons
    on thier parties side of the fence.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  3. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Here's another response to someone who questioned why he sent his kids to parochial school....

    Voter to Chris Christie: Do your kids go to public school? Christie to voter: None of your business « Hot Air

    Sometimes a politician has a moment when they grab the reins and show leadership. Think of Reagan when he grabbed the microphone in the 1980 debate which was supposed to be between him and George H. W. Bush until all the other candidates showed up. Reagan grabbed the microphone and yelled " I 'm paying for this microphone Mr. Green ( it was Breen but whatever)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO2_49TycdE
    He showed leadership in contrast to what was perceived as a weak President Carter.
    Pawlenty had his opportunity when he called Romney's health care ObamaRomneycare in a TV interview but backed down when in a debate with Romney. He showed a lack of 'stones' and it will hurt him long term.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011
  4. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh, don't get me wrong, I do, too.

    I just wonder how people like Harry and 13 feel about one of their heroes going against their personal belief that Sharia Law is a real threat here and their belief that our government should do everything they can to prevent the possibility.

    I mean, how can it be a possibility, much less a threat, when someone so well-respected and admired like Chris Christie says, in no uncertain terms, that the fears about creeping Sharia laws in The USA is crap?
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Unfortunately, what we know about politicians in this country are colored by the media and we don't get to see much more than sound-bites.

    From what the media shows of this guy makes me think Christie is a dick. Seems like he will never be "smoothe" enough to be presidential material regardless of his politics. He's the governor of NJ and I could care less what he says right now. If he becomes a Senator or Congressman, that's another story. He happens to be right on this issue, though. He's wrong when he tells a reporter that where his kids go to school is "none of their business". Hey, numbskull! If you want privacy, stay out of politics!
  6. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    I prefer those who have served in an executive office before (i.e. Governors > Senators > Representative).
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess it's a nice moment for the rest of us to see Christie employing his well-known brashness in support of something not uniformly d1cky. Now we get to see what you on the right like so much about your twits constantly shouting and bullying and simultaneously being ever wronger with each outburst.

    Since this guy shouted and bullied and was right for once, it's fun to see what you guys see in your regularly appearing and collapsing rightie messiahs. You like it that they'll yell a point of view and grab headlines with a heartfelt soundbite you believe is the truth.

    Stylistically speaking, this evidently speaks to all of us now. We're all sick of the other point of view. In this particular case Christie shouted and bullied for a decent reason.

    Usually not so much.

    Yeah that's "leadership..."

    But on the other hand...

    Yeah, we might be in much better shape if Obama said "clean bill, on my desk, by July 15, or I go all fourteenth amendment. And send a black helicopter for Norquist..."
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Like you, I'd vote for Christie in a heart-beat. I love politicians who don't fall into typical "hard-line" partisanship, don't you?

    Seems like a good, rational man with a conscience doesn't he?
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Christie is hard-line partisanship, but even hard-line partisans occasionally get something right.

    His stand on the Sharia law is pretty much the only good thing Christie did. Recently, he came under fire for trying to defund a nationally recognized program (that involves police, prosecutors, doctors, and therapists) that aids sexually abused children. He lost that battle and actually had to hold two press conferences to try to rationalize his behavior. Also, his budget cuts have resulted in skyrocketing crime in poor areas of New Jersey

    Newark Shootings, Camden Burglaries Make Crime Christie

    Christie is also accused of misusing state funds and is blocking attempts to investigate his use of state helicopters.

    "Shootings in Newark surged 43 percent after New Jersey’s largest municipality fired 162 police officers in November. Camden burglaries rose 65 percent after the state’s poorest city shed half its force in January."
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Patters, what people fail to recognize is that crime levels have nothing to do with the number of police officers an area can/should employ. The only factor determining funding for ANYTHING is "Revenue".

    We are now entering the age of balanced budgets. Moving forward on all fronts (federal, state, city, town and county) we will not be able to deficit spend. It's not a choice, it's what we must do.

    Get used to it. It's simple common sense.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, I agree our budgets need to be more balanced, so we need to raise taxes on the wealthy. It the short term, it may not play out that way, but in the long-term it will.
  12. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    And here is where we disagree. You want to increase revenues to meet budget and I support cutting budgets to meet revenues. Difference of opinion...that's what this country is all about!
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Whoa there, Reign it in, will ya?

    I never said I'd vote for him.....when I said I understood what people like Harry saw in him - I meant his outspokenness.

    Just because he got one thing right doesn't mean I'm throwing my support behind him - on the contrary, I'd probably never vote for him for dogcatcher much less president.

    All it means is I admire the fact that he'll say whatever's on his mind - it doesn't mean I agree with him on everything he says or does.

    Mostly I was being tongue-in-cheek.
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I know...my comments about you voting for him were also tongue in cheek!;)
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    In Washington DC, non-public terror alert advisories were quietly accompanied byincreased police patrols in the downtown National Mall area where sensitive federal buildings (White House, Congress) were located.

    Researchers Klick and Tabarrock (2004) concluded that there was strong statistical evidence that more police reduced crime and concluded that an increase of approximately 50% in police presence is expected to lead to a statistically significant reduction of between 12 to 16% in the crime
    level.


    During these alerts, other areas of Washington had a statistically insignificant
    reduction in crime. Notably, this showed that crime was not necessarily displaced from higher policed to lower policed areas.

    A similar study was published by economists Di Tella and Schargrodosky (2004) who examined the effects of more policing on crime following a terrorist attack on the main Jewish center in Buenos Aries. In the wake of the attack, in July 1994, all Jewish and Muslim institutions were given 24-hour police protection. The researchers collected data on motor vehicle thefts per block, before and after the decision to provide more police protection. They observed that the blocks that received police protection had 75% fewer
    car thefts than the blocks that did not have this increased level of protection.

    Another “natural experiment” study was conducted by Shi (2005) who studied the Cincinnati Police department following a U.S. Department of Justice investigation of racial profiling. The intense media attention, along with a parallel Federal investigation and subsequent oversight, left officers reluctant to take enforcement action in black neighborhoods, for fear of being accused of racism. Anecdotal and activity data showed that officers cut down on their criminal law enforcement activities immediately after the
    increased oversight was put in place. For example, drug and liquor law violations (e.g. proactive investigations) decreased by 46% and 76%, respectively.
    Changes in arrests for domestic violence situations (e.g. reactive investigations) showed little effect.

    In otherwords, while the numbers of officers remained constant, the “volume” of policing in Cincinnati deceased because of the reluctance of officers to engage in proactive street policing. The result of the decreased policing was that monthly felony crime (e.g. violentand property crime) increased by 16%. Shi (2005) notes that “the increase was greater for robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, and auto-theft, arguably the types of felonies
    which are most sensitive to policing than the rest”.

    There have been other studies that have examined police numbers and crime over a longer period of time to reduce the simultaneity bias. New York City has long been recognized as a community that has recovered economically and culturally because of increased public safety. Corman & Mocan (2000) analyzed 30 years of data and concluded that a 10% increase in the growth rate of arrests has the potential to cause a 9.4% decrease in the long-run growth rate of robberies, a 2.89% decrease in the growth rate of burglaries and a 2.72% decrease in the long-run growth rate of motor-vehicle
    thefts
    . Additionally, they found “robust evidence for the deterrent effects of arrests and police on most categories of serious felony arrests”.

    Marvell & Moody (1996) collected data from 56 U.S. cities, over twenty years, and found that an increase in the number of police officers does result in a reduction of crime in the subsequent year. They estimate that each additional officer added to a police force located in a large city will prevent an average of 24 serious crimes (i.e. murders, sexual assaults, robberies, aggravated assaults, burglaries, larcenies and auto thefts). They also
    conclude that hiring officers in urban areas will reduce crime far more than in smaller towns.


    http://www.majorcitieschiefs.org/pdf/news/more_policing_does_matter.pdf
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mrs. P, don't you know it's cheating when you provide evidence to support your point of view?
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I never said police presence doesn't reduce crime. I'm saying we can't employ more police than we can afford. If a city believes it's more important to have strong police presence than their budgets will allow, then they can cut something else to accomplish that goal.

    By the way, I agree with the article's premise.
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Or they can, (novel idea here) raise taxes to pay for it.
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    My bad.......
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sharia in NJ don't be silly, or maybe not?


    Thankfully this judge was overturned this time.

    Good article on this issue from Andrew McCarthy:

    Christie’s
  21. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Key words - "ruling reversed." American justice prevailed. As it always will.
  22. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How many beatings and rapes did she endure waiting for the reversal? Will it prevail next time in 10 years?

    The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. There are constant attempts to insert sharia for muslims. It is reasonable to ask if this jurist would have reversed that ruling.
  23. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do you really think that every woman who goes to court with a valid reason looking for a restraining order gets one?

    Do you really think that all domestic crimes that are committed, reported and tried get the justice they deserve?

    Do you honestly think that there are never mistakes made by judges, juries, lawyers, police officers, etc? Do you think that white women, black women, yellow women - women of all races and religions are not often denied justice by some male judge?

    Coz if you think this is an isolated incident where a husband has been set loose by a court to wreak still more havoc upon his wife I've got a bridge to sell you.
  24. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    deflection alert.....
  25. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's an example of an inept judge. Every day, there are examples where judges do stupid things right and left.

    My advice is: If you're really worried about Sharia law stay away from those states that are so threatened with Sharia that they are trying to pass special legislation.

    ALASKA
    ARIZONA
    ARKANSAS
    GEORGIA
    INDIANA
    LOUISIANA
    MISSISSIPPI
    NEBRASKA
    OKLAHOMA
    SOUTH CAROLINA
    TEXAS
    SOUTH DAKOTA
    UTAH
    WYOMING

    Now come on PF, look at that list: If that Sharia law stuff isn't just plain ignorance, what is? Do you honestly believe any of those states needs statutes outlawing Sharia law?
  26. patsfan13

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    Should women be protected by judges who take Sharia law into account allowing rape and beatings of women?
  27. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    13, it's not deflection if it's true and it's relevant.

    The fact is - there are multiple incidents of judges refusing to issue protective orders or to find men guilty of spousal rape - and the reasons are as individual and varied as the cases presented.

    One judge cites "Sharia law," one judge cites, "not enough evidence," another cites, "the woman was asking for it." Some judges has a bias aganst women in general, some judges don't like black women, some don't like Muslim women, some don't like strippers or blondes or whatever. Judges are, unfortunately, human beings and, like all human beings, make mistakes.

    No one disputes that this judge made the wrong decision....even the court which reversed his decision agreed that he made a wrong decison. It doesn't mean that Sharia Law is about to take over the American court system. It means there was a bad judge who gave a bad ruling and AMERICAN LAW allowed the woman further redress, which she took advantage of and she eventually got the protection under the American law she appealed to.

    And just in case you think I'm talking out my *** - here's a few recent stories for you about judges and the mistakes they make.

    The Florida woman killed by a man who had allegedly stalked her since her Hooters waitressing days had tried to get an order of protection against him, but a judge refused the request.

    Alissa Blanton, 23, of Cocoa, Fla., was shot and killed Monday in the parking lot near her new job at an AT&T call center in Orange County, Fla. Police said her killer, 61-year-old Roger Troy, fatally shot himself immediately afterward.

    About a week before she died, Blanton asked a judge for an order of protection against Troy, whom she said had been stalking her for two years. Despite the evidence she presented -- her petition contained more than 70 pages of harassing e-mails Troy sent to her -- Brevard County Circuit Court Judge Dean Moxley said he didn't have enough information to rule on the petition.

    Alissa Blanton: Stalker Kills Florida Newlywed, Former Hooters Waitress - ABC News

    Georgia Gunzer was denied a protection order against her ex-boyfriend three months before he allegedly stabbed her to death while their daughter held a slumber party in the living room.

    Pierce County prosecutors on Monday filed a first-degree murder count against 35-year-old Alphonso Albert Bell, and a not-guilty plea was entered on his behalf at an arraignment.

    Court Commissioner Patrick Oishi ordered Bell jailed on $2 million bail.

    “I feel very strongly that our system failed her,” said Cydney Marckmann, the victim’s friend. “She was trying to do everything the right way and was shut down.”

    In a protection order Gunzer sought in October, she alleged Bell had been repeatedly calling her cell phone and harassing her. She also said she previously had a protection order against him in Thurston County.

    “This person has in the past made threatening remarks and has put his hands on me numerous times,” Gunzer wrote.

    Commissioner Mark Gelman denied the protection order after reading a letter from a state Department of Corrections employee that said Gunzer had been to visit Bell at least six times while he was jailed in Kitsap County.


    Note: The reason she had visited the jail was to bring her daughter to see her father - as so ordered by the court earlier.

    Read more: Safety concerned victim found dead in Tacoma apartment | Tacoma - The News Tribune

    Our March 2 cover story, "Illegal Guardians," detailed problems in the state family courts' procedures for investigating allegations of child abuse and spousal battery in divorce proceedings — and four cases in which custody decisions led to children being placed with physically or sexually abusive parents. In one, a 9-month-old boy was murdered by his father after a judge refused the mother's request for a protective order.

    Family Courts Need Reform, Say Judges, Legislators - Page 1 - News - San Francisco - SF Weekly

    So, as much as you'd like to make this an "example" case because it fullfills a personal agenda it's not about Sharia Law so much as it's about bad judges.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011
  28. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    and if people are really concerned about sharia, they should also stop trying to pass laws based on their own religious beliefs.
  29. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If I thought Sharia law was any sort of threat, I'd be more for it than you are probably. But, the reality is, given the states, where statutes banning Sharia law are being proposed, it suggests to me that some people are simply trying to stoke anti-Muslim sentiment with the irrational fear that Sharia law could somehow trump the US Constitution. There are weird cases where the courts are forced to look at Sharia law, such as in international disputes, or at the request of two parties who want to use it (such as in divorce), but the Constitution always is above it. There is ZERO threat of Sharia law in this country. I'd worry more about an invasion from Mars. Are you really worried about this?

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