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Scientists write an open letter about the politicization of science

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by apple strudel, May 7, 2010.

  1. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    It's pretty obvious that science is a pretty lame thing to politicize. You may score some cheap short term points, but in the end facts are facts and you just wind up looking like an idiot. 255 members of the US National Academy of Sciences are politely trying to remind people of this fact.

    And it sounds like they had PF13 in mind when they wrote this letter.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/328/5979/689
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
  2. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Eh, they're just a bunch of elitists... think they know more just because they're educated and make livings studying this stuff...
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    MMGW says hello.
  4. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    (i) The planet is warming due to increased concentrations of heat-trapping gases in our atmosphere. A snowy winter in Washington does not alter this fact.
    (ii) Most of the increase in the concentration of these gases over the last century is due to human activities, especially the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation.
    (iii) Natural causes always play a role in changing Earth's climate, but are now being overwhelmed by human-induced changes.
    (iv) Warming the planet will cause many other climatic patterns to change at speeds unprecedented in modern times, including increasing rates of sea-level rise and alterations in the hydrologic cycle. Rising concentrations of carbon dioxide are making the oceans more acidic.
    (v) The combination of these complex climate changes threatens coastal communities and cities, our food and water supplies, marine and freshwater ecosystems, forests, high mountain environments, and far more.
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Forget it. You're banging your head against the wall using such big words and complex processes. People don't like that. In fact they hate it. Give them a TV, some Ring-Dings and a big-ass SUV and they're all set.

    No one who doesn't "believe in" human impacts on the environment like the alteration of the atmosphere is going to be convinced otherwise until the Keys are under water and palm trees grow in Michigan. Anything short of that is "liberal clap-trap". Same goes for evolution in the 1930's and human space flight in 1900.

    You might as well try to convince the Pope that he's straight.
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well said Whista, I love that kind of talk........:rocker:
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, but take away the ring-dings and the TV - or make them really expensive, because the mountain of debt accumulated will eventually result in a weaker dollar... and/or because they choose to draw the protectionist line at the border, in the case of produce and landscaping services...

    ...or because oil reserves are a limited resource...

    ...and things begin to change. First the spasms of anger, infused with "me-first" self-serving resource grabs (eg., tea partiers wanting old people all set and young people uninsured...) then, likely, a backlash, as it dawns on the body politic that it was a lie from the start: we never could afford "the American way of life" which consists of a lifestyle which, were it adopted by everyone on the earth, would destroy civilization in short order. No, we financed it by becoming the world's greatest debtor in history.

    "Don't bring up stuff from the distant past like getting man off the ground and flying first through the air then to the moon, the earth's flat and it was all done in studios anyway... also when you take a "plane" it's really a series of motion pictures run against the "windows" you look out at, with holograms projected in the sky around airports to complete the illusion... you really get to other cities by the concentrated prayer of the Civilian Theoportation Corps, but the liberals don't want you to know about that, because you're brainwashed lemmings, I can prove it, once a Liberal had an affair and drank a lot - TADA!"


    I must register my offense at this. I have no actual proof that he is either straight or gay by inclination, nor that he prefers partners under or over the age of consent. The only real indication I have is that he favors condoning pedophilia, not whether he prefers pedophilia himself, and not whether he favors homosexual or heterosexual child sex abuse.

    We should be fair.

    PFnV
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Good point. My bad. Apologies to gay men for including the Pope in their demographic.
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    **** you Wistah. I'm no moron. Big words and complex processes. :rolleyes: I've got a college degree, and run million dollar projects. Just cuz I'm not a sucker for stupidity, and political driven drivel like you, doesn't make me a moron. You can keep your big words and complex processes, and I'll stick with common sense, the historical facts. As if any of this MMGW BS were about the environment. The environment is something I absolutely believe in protecting. Global taxation, and government, is not. Have a nice day.
  10. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Not sure what you mean by ****, but I'm guessing I'm not getting four stars. Nice. Better work on your skin thickness, OK toughguy?

    Thanks for making my point.

    But keep up the good work, huh? No one gives a rat's ass what size projects you run. No one cares that you have a degree in anything. What does matter is the fact that you and others who resent science will bite at the smallest bit of information that backs up your self-dillusional beliefs. And the opinion of a handful of scientists who have their own agenda's ($$$) means nothing in the face of overwhelming scientific proof that the world's climate -not to mention the levels of toxins and heavy metals in the rest of the environment- is changing because of human activity. Never mind the damage being done to babies' brains and bodies (for all you "pro-lifers out there) from those poisons.

    By "global taxation" I suppose you mean that you don't want to pay for the gluttony of American society, right? You don't think Americans should be denied the "right" to consume hugely disproportionate amounts of the world's natural resources because...why?...we deserve it? We have more guns? Our Constitution gives us permission? That's what your concerned about is friggin MONEY?
    Last edited: May 8, 2010
  11. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    .........and evolution. Which are both myths.
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    No FRIGGIN WAY!
    More prooving my point! I love it!
    Classic!..........:rofl::rofl:

    Evn those who doubt human impact on the climate still have a shred of reason to cling to. Anti-evolutionists?...Whooooole different category! LMFAO!
    Last edited: May 8, 2010
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I assumed eaglesland was being sarcastic. Is it possible he wasn't?
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Like I said, **** you pal. I don't need to be disengenuiously talked to like I'm a child, while simutaneously being called a moron. My skin is thick enough. I'm simply calling you out for personally insulting my intelligence. If you don't like it, then grow some nuts next time, quote me, and call me a moron directly. BTW, aren't you the same person who told me "**** you", for using the word cripple in a post. Oh yeah, you are. What comes around goes around I guess.

    I don't want to pay my hard earned cash for some UN, moonbat made up, MMGW BS, where the sole purpose is to create a global government, while "socializing" the world. Just cuz you're foolish enough to fall for it, doesn't mean I should be forced to pay. You think it's a problem, alter your lifestyle accordingly, or mail in your cash. The notion that taxing richer nations, and handing it to 3rd world polluters, somehow saves the environment, is complete BS. If this were about the environment, then fine, but once taxes, global government, and excemptions for some of the worlds biggest polluters becomes the heart of the "solution", I'm calling BS.

    I love how some morons think that "their" scientists are completely sincere in their intentions, and 100% accurate, while the "other people's" scientists are totally agenda driven, and only in it for the cash. Thinking along those lines must be a sign of understanding "complex issues & big words" I guess. :rolleyes:
  15. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bidding stands at Global Warming and Evolution... do I hear round earth? Round earth anyone? Going once, going twice... come on guys there's still time to up the ante...
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    OK, drama queen.

    I never called you a moron. You called yourself a moron, and after your resonse this time I'd be inclined to agree with you. You claim that there are some sort of "sides" of the scientific community and that someone claims 100% consensus vs. the other side which is somehow comprised of some sort of intellectual "victim" while they jump up and down like a collective spoiled brat. Saying the scientists that differ from each other- are split into two competing camps-is simplistic and immature. Nothing in science is a black-and-white issue. But when you liik at the curve of opinion and the curve is weighted HEAVILY to one side or another, society has to respond to the findings. There will always be some who claim that we never landed on the moon, but that doesn't mean we should conduct the space program on them. .. I'm wasting my time, aren't I?

    Tell you what, toughguy...You and your 10% friends in the scientific community keep hanging on to whatever it is you hang on to and go right ahead and use your common sense, and yell out "MOONBAT!" or "SOCIALIST!" whenever someone mentions global warming...Now that's simplicity!
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    You're using too many big words pal, and I'm too busy eating my Ring-Dings. Have a nice day!
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pretty funny letter, thanks for posting.


    So I wonder where these scientist were when scinetist like Lidzen, Spenser, Ball, McIntyre, McKittrick, Pelke, Sversmack, and on and on were being attacked as being illegitimate and funded by oil companies for putting forth their scientific papers and ideas?

    Where were the concerns about McCarthyism when the CRU and their friends in America (Hansen, Mann, Schmidt) preventing the publication of papers that might provide information contradicting their preordained conclusion. How about the concerns for science, when datasets and computer code have been denied to other scientist to prevent independent verification? Especially when the data and code have been generated sing public funds ( I would note that all the signatories of the letter are employed by Universities and probably get THEIR funding from grants many (most?) of which are funded publicly). It was absent because they didn't care about the purity of science when it came to attacking scientist who disagreed with their position/agenda.


    I enjoyed the comment about nothing in science being totally provable, tell it to Newton, Einstein and others. Those laws have been proven. As opposed to the MMGW theory that has not been proven. They ignore the failure of the Computer models that as the basis for the assumption of positive feedbacks that have CO2 levels as a forcing factors. These models have predicted heating that is totally missing in the atmosphere, IOW the models are flat WRONG. I could go on about science but to what end.
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh Yeah the specific reason for this letter, sorry. The VA AG is conducting a criminal investigation of M Mann's role in climategate and if public funds were used by Mann when he was at UVA, this scares the hell apparently out of the Authors all of whom at employed by Universities and who get public funding for THEIR research.


    I agree let's get politics out of science, stop the funding of 'science' designed to promote a public policy agenda. If their research is that important let the schools bankroll these folks without public funds.
  20. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl Rookie

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    Science is a great responsibility, both to us and our world.

    Its a tool and like any tool it can be used for great good or for great harm, you choose.

    I don't let any politician influence my beliefs in god or science.....thats my responsibility.

    Along time ago ppl thought the world was flat, along time ago ppl thought that the universe revolved around the earth, along time ago ppl used to enslave other to be slaves and some still do too this day:mad:.

    Some ppl will wake up, most won't.....you just have to leave them behind. This is our Earth and I love it and I want it to be around for more ppl to enjoy and be thankful for, not for the ppl who think its owed to them or think they deserve it.

    I don't think that being ignorant about our issues is going to solve any problem but good luck!:rolleyes:

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