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Science on Global Warming

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    5 part you tube video (~50 min total). Great narrative about how the sun and our solar system's movement through our galaxy is driving the climate on the earth.


    The story involves a geologist, an astrophysicist and a physicist, how they link up and how their different stories and research are related.

    1 interesting aspect, this documentary was made prior to the Climategate Scandal being exposed. They tell about the difficulties Svensmark had getting his paper published. We now know from the leaked emails that this paper was one of the papers the CRU crew and Mann had blocked from publication.

    part1
    YouTube - Henrik Svensmark on Global Warming (part 1)

    part 2
    YouTube - Henrik Svensmark on Global Warming (part 2)

    part 3
    YouTube - Henrik Svensmark on Global Warming (part 3)

    part 4
    YouTube - Henrik Svensmark on Global Warming (part 4)

    part 5
    YouTube - Henrik Svensmark on Global Warming (part 5)





    BTW another article about a paper the CRU crew and their attempts to block it. Told by the author of the paper they were attempting to block. He gives the timeline and his experience with the journal and ties in the email written looking to influence the publication of this paper.

    The Dog Ate Global Warming by Patrick J. Michaels on National Review Online


    This article puts the fraud into context and helps one understand the conspiracy to censor scientific papers that challenged the MMGW alarmist.


    I'd been meaning to post this for awhile thanks to ljuneau for bringing Svensmark up in the other Global cooling thread.
     
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey


    have they managed to divest themselves of their holdings yet?

    Perhaps they can bundle them and get some reprieve - hide it all in the health care bill perhaps.
     
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    An ex CIA guy who deals in government fraud sent an email to all M Mann's co workers at Penn State urging them to come forward and explaining the millions in rewards available for exposing fraud committed with government money.


    Climategate: Michael Mann’s very unhappy New Year Watts Up With That?


    email, sent to Mann's co workers put in the public domain by the author:

     
  4. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    AND THE

    [​IMG]

    WILL SET YOU FREE!​
     
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is it your point of view, pf13, that if no one comes forward, they are simply corrupt, or that there is nothing to whistleblow on? After all, so called Climategate amounted to next to nothing, despite the best exaggerations of the right wing media machine. So, the evidence of corruption is limited. I wouldn't expect much by way of whistleblowers -- except perhaps in the private sector where money flows more freely and more secretively.
     
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They may not come forward because they don't want their careers ended if they come forward.


    The evidence of corruption is very plain frankly and the list grows daily. From the deletion of weather station data and proxies to the corruption of the peer review process to keep the grant money flowing.


    BTW how did you like the documentary?

    What did you think of the dishonest way Patrick Michael treated by the Journal when his paper was denied publication for a number of months, so he could be attacked without an nopportunity to respond by the cowards ar CRU?
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Or that there's nothing to whistleblow on.

    There's no evidence to support either. The weather station data exists and the peer review process was not corrupted, though a couple scientists expressed support for the idea.

    I've told you before I rarely watch videos because they are an inefficient way to learn, but I do read or at least skim any article you post. I did watch it for a few minutes and thought it had high propaganda value with effective music and good editing, but didn't seem to present an opposing point of view. Thus it was not a documentary, except in the sense that An Inconvenient Truth was one (which of course was bigger budget).

    Patrick J. Michaels - SourceWatch

    "Michaels' firm does not disclose who its clients are, but leaked documents have revealed that several were power utilities which operate coal power stations. On a 2007 academic CV, Michaels disclosed that prior to creating his firm he had received funding from the Edison Electric Institute and the Western Fuels Association. He has also been a frequent speaker with leading coal and energy companies as well as coal and other industry lobby groups."

    Sourcewatch also cites the hundreds of thousands of dollars that he has received from major polluters, and I know that you believe money corrupts so that should be significant to you.

    At any rate, politics has clearly been injected by both sides into the global warming debate, but fortunately there are enough scientists out there who are not tainted in any way. Michaels is not one of them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    according the Jones at cru the raw data is lost.





    Patrick J. Michaels - SourceWatch

    "Michaels' firm does not disclose who its clients are, but leaked documents have revealed that several were power utilities which operate coal power stations. On a 2007 academic CV, Michaels disclosed that prior to creating his firm he had received funding from the Edison Electric Institute and the Western Fuels Association. He has also been a frequent speaker with leading coal and energy companies as well as coal and other industry lobby groups."

    Sourcewatch also cites the hundreds of thousands of dollars that he has received from major polluters, and I know that you believe money corrupts so that should be significant to you.

    At any rate, politics has clearly been injected by both sides into the global warming debate, but fortunately there are enough scientists out there who are not tainted in any way. Michaels is not one of them.[/QUOTE]


    As opposed to the billions funneled by government to the alarmist.

    This of course has nothing to do with the validity of his peer reviewed paper which was accepted and then denied publication for almost a year while the cRu crew tried to refute the paper without peer review.
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    PF13, I don't deny that some percent of people who advocate for global warming, be they scientists or politicians, are in it for the wrong reasons -- money, fame, power. But, for every Al Gore, there's a James Inhofe. For every opportunistic mmgw-believer, there's an opportunist denier. As far as how much each side spends, who knows? There are many complicating factors, especially when you let politics enter the equation. Is every penny spent on the subject by government dishonest? Does industry report what it spends? What measures do we use to determine a legitimate expenditure vs. one that is oriented towards propaganda.

    I know several scientists, none who are involved in global warming issues, however. These scientists I know are not particularly political. They might lean liberal, but when it comes to their work, they are honest and sincere. I think that's true of most people, and have no problem with you dismissing the Gores, the Manns, and others, because there are many other scientists left who believe the case for mmgw is convincing and supported by the data.
     
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Summer=Hot
    Winter=Cold

    All morons know this.
     
  11. atomdomb

    atomdomb Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    There apparently is no "science" of Global Warming. Anyway, that silly Al Gore invented Global Warming just like the internet.
     
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For Christ Sakes slow down Vinnie, you almost hit that iceberg.
     
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Goofy Gore better keep his oil tank filled.

    Midwest bracing for heavy snow -- wind chills of 50 below!
    Next Arctic Blast blows even colder...
    Persistent cold tightens grip on nation...
    CHILL MAP...
    Britain's big snow shuts cities...
    Death toll rises to 22 in UK's biggest freeze for 30 years......
    Arctic blast freezes Texas...
    Weekend Freeze Looms for Gulf Coast...
    Florida races to save crops...
    ICE DELAYS FLIGHTS IN TAMPA...
    DRUDGE REPORT 2010®

    GLOBAL WARMING---:singing:
     
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Never mind as have been told if there is a response to this, I will be responsible for someone else's behavior.. another freaky friday on the Patsfans.com political message board.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2010
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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  16. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Once again I ask, how much of "climate change" is man made? Just a rough percentage will do.

    Also if we did everything that the climate change advocates want us to do how much effect will that have on turning back global warming? Just a rough estimate in degrees will do.

    We all get caught up in the "yes it is - no it's not" war. I would just like some facts, so I can decide if it is worth the cost to the economy and taxpayers, or not.
     
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you believe the computer modelers all the warming is from man's activities. They computer modelers don't commit to a specific amount of temp reduction thing like Kyoto would produce.



    If believer the skeptics perhaps .02 degree C is due to man's CO2 emissions the rest is natural processes. If we do cap and trade and Copenhagen you will reduce temps .002 degree C, yes 2 thousandth of a degree reduction.
     
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BTW how do these eco crisis fantasies affect the poor, famine is one answer:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/16/biofuels.alternativeenerg


     
  19. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Are you honestly trying to suggest that the sun has an effect on our climate? Blasphemy!
     
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah I am a sucker for all the silly notions. After all the big yellow thingie couldn't have anything to do with the climate. ;)
     

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