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Schefter: Pats $17.4M under cap


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The Jags do have a pretty solid team. They just need to make 1 or 2 great moves. Who knows, like pick up asante. Mathis and Asante. That's scary.
 
The Jags do have a pretty solid team. They just need to make 1 or 2 great moves. Who knows, like pick up asante. Mathis and Asante. That's scary.

if Randy Moss leaves..i can see them making a big push for him and then basically their roster looks set
 
As is always pointed out to me, there are always a wealth of moves to be made. The Eckel situation was a known deal, and the effect of cap dieting regarding Donte and Washington was pretty well known. The issue wasn't ever cap health... and even if/when we believe we are up against the wall, there may be more possible moves to be made (i.e., Colvin, and others if necessary.)

Getting back to the other side of the ledger, the statement was made that Asante would love to sop up all of that on his lonesome. This is not the effect of a blockbuster deal. Often such deals are structured so the first year comes plenty cheap.

The issue there is not to put the team on the hook for big dead money hits going forward. So if you guarantee 22 mill on an 80M, 8 year contract for Asante (the Clement-type money he wants,) 22M is down the tubes, then there's 58M in salary to put on the books at different yearly amounts over 7 years.

So let's say 2008 nets him 22M bucks, including 2M in salary and 20M in bonuses. That 20M option is divided by 8 years. Since 20 = 2.5 x 8, we're on the hook for Year 1 of 20M, or 2.5M, plus 2M salary = 4.5 M.

The downside is, now you're on the hook for 2.5M per year (amortization), for 8 years. If there is still a cap for 8 years, that means 2.5M each and every year in dead money if/when you get rid of the guy, because you've already spent that 2.5M/year in that signing bonus.

In addition, of course, salary over 7 years has to equal 58M per year, so that's north of 8M APY in salary for every year that you keep him...

naturally that's back-loaded to an extent, so the 80M total on the deal includes something like 15M per year for the last 2 years, bringing it down to , say, 28M that you pay over five years, in salary... for something like 5.5 M per year for 5 years, salary.

So that gets you to 8M average until years 7 and 8, inclding amortization from bonus.

To the team that means, in this made-up scenario:

- 4.5M bucks for year 1

- 8M a year for years 2 through 6 (bonus proration plus salary)

- a dead money hit of 2.5M a year that kicks in the moment you cut Asante in the future (a "penalty" based on the bonus you originally paid.)

So the way it works is not so much a sticker price for buying a guy. It's a combination of risks turned into dollar figures, and loaded against the cap on one side, or the player on the other side.

In the above very simple example, there's 30 million bucks of vanity money at the back end... by year 7 and 8 there's a limited dead money hit left, and a ton of salary money left, so the team has room to wiggle out and incentive to do so.

But during the first six years, the team would be silly to wiggle out, because (in theory) they'd be getting good performance for that long. If they wiggle out early, they will be punished, so this risk-loading makes sure they don't wiggle out without good reason. At the same time, the team has some room to do so, in the case of disasterous underperformance. But they pay.

Just felt like getting this basic info across. I'm not a cap expert of any kind, but I think it's worth mentioning this idea as we go forward. It's not so much the "right now" hit of any given signing... its the cumulative effect. We are looking at any given time at a pot of say half a billion dollars representing about 4 years, only one year of which (the current cap) is certain. And that pot trails off into the distance, it does not cut short at 4 years... The thing about cap discipline is making sure you're not building up those dead money threats in time-bomb contracts throughout your team, and resisting the urge to spend disproportionately at any given position throughout the roster. The Pats have been good at that historically, or "cheap," if you listen to some players.

Okay all done with the soap box, someone else can use it now.

PFnV
 
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And PS, that still doesn't mean you can sign everybody you want to!!!!

So is Asante the guy?

How much does Moss cost? How about Gaffney, who might not be expensive, but sure isn't free either? How many guys aren't under contract that we need to get to build the final 53? What about the defensive pickup? As pondered above, will we be on the hook for multimillion dollar guarantees for our first round pick... or are we trading down?

It's all puzzle pieces at this point. That's why a Redskins-like team often looks at dazzling cap money, makes bad deals, and ends up piling up the dead money, after paying up-front for performance that never materializes.

Meanwhile, the Pats and many other teams sweat the details of contract structure going forward into the future, pick up the relative "bargains," all while looking at millions of bucks in cap space. So yeah, even looking at 17M in space, you don't go nuts.

Okay right this time I really am done.

PFnV
 
I think this is a solid analysis. The prices will be high for free agents. Belichick won't overpay. We'll see where we are after the first week, but we should focus on re-signing our own free agents, our draftees, and carry some over again. As I said last year when could have spent much more, the reality of 2007 cap decisions is that we move the money into 2009 or 2010. Of course we will sign a few free agents, but not like last year.

Yea, but have you looked at the free agent market? All these teams have $30M+ in cap space, with only a few players worthy of top dollar available. Seems to me they're all going to drive the prices up (substantially) on the top free agents, and the losers will have a large chunk of unused cap space. Because of the lack of top level players at certain positons (DB), some mid-level guys could come at a price not entirely accurate to their value, as well.

Honestly, this is a good year to have just enough cap space to make some moves, and a bunch of first day draft picks (there's some good depth at RB, CB, DE/OLB, and OT in this 2008 class).
 
I guess will find out if we are cutting guys like stallworth and washington for sure...

Maybee we will just give assante the whole enchilada, and bring back the shoemakers back for recievers..
 
Maybe we put this toward signing Big Vince long term after Moss gets his deal?
 
Is this 17.4 million under cap still with Stallworth on the team, or is this with him being cut?
 
I was thinking so, but he hasn't offically been cut...So possibly when they cut Stallworth and Washington it may go in the 20's?
 
Honestly, this is a good year to have just enough cap space to make some moves, and a bunch of first day draft picks (there's some good depth at RB, CB, DE/OLB, and OT in this 2008 class).

I'm guessing this 17+ doesn't count incentives, as Miguel's page does not yet account for it, and that's roughly the # he comes up with. So there's a lot to account for - incentives (-), re-structuring/extending players (-), Moss signing (-).

But basically, we're going to have somewhere in the range of 10 mill to look at FAs.

The problem is...what is out there? It's garbage. Hooray for the Jags and Chargers and all the other good teams with a bunch of cap space, good luck finding players to improve your team.

Honestly, I'm looking for CBs & LBs via free agency but come up blank. Other than hoping for a Ty Law return, I'm not really sure where we'll spend the cap space we have.
 
Great posts, guys.

I gotta tell ye, all this salary cap business makes my head spin.

When the clock strikes midnight, Feburary 29th, I'll be keeping my computer tuned to PatsFans.com, so I can see what our team-building situation really is.
 
It should also be safe to assume that this # is before the Brady re-negotation, which will create more space.

This team has a 3-5 year window where they should be near the top, they need to take advantage of each step.
 
The Jags do have a pretty solid team. They just need to make 1 or 2 great moves. Who knows, like pick up asante. Mathis and Asante. That's scary.

Like pick up Tom Brady and BB
 
I'm guessing this 17+ doesn't count incentives, as Miguel's page does not yet account for it, and that's roughly the # he comes up with. So there's a lot to account for - incentives (-), re-structuring/extending players (-), Moss signing (-).

But basically, we're going to have somewhere in the range of 10 mill to look at FAs.

The problem is...what is out there? It's garbage. Hooray for the Jags and Chargers and all the other good teams with a bunch of cap space, good luck finding players to improve your team.
Honestly, I'm looking for CBs & LBs via free agency but come up blank. Other than hoping for a Ty Law return, I'm not really sure where we'll spend the cap space we have.

The Chargers have all 22 starters from last year signed for 2008, so they are not really looking for much.
 
The Chargers have all 22 starters from last year signed for 2008, so they are not really looking for much.

If they'd like to do better than last year they may want to think about attempting to improve upon their roster (starters included).
 
If they'd like to do better than last year they may want to think about attempting to improve upon their roster (starters included).

San Diego and New England are the two most talented teams in the NFL. Not surprisingly, San Diego has only lost to New England in the playoffs in the past two seasons, and not to anyone else. Also not surprisingly, viewed from a "beat the hell out of each other" perspective, New England has lost the game following the Chargers matchup both times.
 
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The Chargers have all 22 starters from last year signed for 2008, so they are not really looking for much.

It wasn't a knock on them at all, merely a statement on free agency, SD's def in good shape. You guys should wrap up your players long term and put some of that money into this season.
 
It wasn't a knock on them at all, merely a statement on free agency, SD's def in good shape. You guys should wrap up your players long term and put some of that money into this season.

I have no doubt that come opening week next year, NE will be sitting there with an awesome team. Until the Chargers or the Jags can win one important game against NE, there is no way for for their fans to spout off about how good they are.
 
Jax is way under the cap, but lots of folks say that they don't have enough actual money to fill the cap. Jax is a very, very small market without the rabid support that a Green Bay gets.

that said, if you take Randy Moss away from the Pats, and put him on Jax, Jax is very, very close to us. That would move Jax right up the Colts level, VERY close to us.
 
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