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Scenario, answer honestly please

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by LloydBraun, Sep 1, 2007.

  1. LloydBraun

    LloydBraun Rookie

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    Not exactly Rodney's situation, his competitiveness got the best of him, but a good question for all of us to think about as we pass judgement on Rodney.

    You are offered a $12 million contract to play in the NFL. You are a god player, but using HGH will make you that much better and will pretty much help you dominate, $12 mill.

    You will have a doctor oversee your HGH use, administer the drug and assure proper usage.

    Plus, the kicker...... your league does not test for it.

    Do you do it?

    I say yes, hard to pass up. You possibly set your family up for generations.

    I say YES!
  2. SmokeShowin

    SmokeShowin Rookie

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    No doubt, yes.
  3. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    There was a good article two years ago by Tom Curran about HGH...not only teh difficulty in testing for it but also the medical dangers of it and the lure for many to use it. He cited a few examples of players on the edge and how this might help a small bit..an edge. It seemed like a fairly easy choice for one to do that..and I bet many have used it..especially healing from injuries.
    Without any kind of test possible and the use (I blieve rampant) I really wonder how the NFL can get a handle on it??
  4. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would not do it or anything else wrong like that just for money. Any amount. That's the way I lived my career.

    That being said were I to be an older player like Rodney with the frustration of repeated injury and advancing playing age, I might at a time of personal weakness consider using HGH to return to the game I love as my playing years window dwindles. It's different from the greed option. And I would not lie about it if caught. I'd be embarrased and the worst punishment would be dealing with my tarnished self-perception and that of my family and close friends.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2007
  5. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For personal reasons that I will not disclose here there is no way that would I ever take HGH
  6. drakesta101

    drakesta101 Rookie

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    I really hope we don't suddenly turn in to a bunch of Bonds sympathizers just because one of our favorite players has been caught.

    No I wouldn't turn to HGH or any other PED's. It jeopardizes the integrity of the game - I like to think the sports I watch are played on natural gifts alone, as naive as that is.
  7. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Easy for YOU to say. Miguel is a totally ripped stud in person.
  8. Spiral

    Spiral PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You possibly set your family up for generations.

    I don't mean to sound sanctimonious here, but if that's the rationalization, then you could possibly justify a lot of actions that most people would consider illegal or unethical.

    Any Doctor who would do what you proposed should have his/her license ripped.
  9. Va_Pats_Fan

    Va_Pats_Fan Rookie

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    If this was Peyton Manning getting caught, would you have the same attitude...or join the multitude of Pats fans screaming "CHEATER!!!!!"?
  10. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    Yes to this whole post. This is how I feel. I feel his age and desire to remain on the field had so much to do with this.
  11. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I think that is true..his desire to play was a nig factor in all of this. the one thing I think we do not know is how rampant the use of HGH is in the NFL. My guess is it's a lot higher than people will realize. It's also something that can not be tested for. yes, he got caught..had a prescription for and used it. But I wonder how many HAVE used it at times in their career? Easy be very moraliztic about it..but with no way to test for it, hardly real about it.
  12. LloydBraun

    LloydBraun Rookie

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    If it was Manning or Freeney, I would poke fun at them but still have the same big picture outlook.

    I remember the Merriman situation, and the first thing I thought was that he had to be stupid to get caught. Or, why didn't he just use HGH instead of the juice since there are no tests for HGH.

    We, incl. me, are all SOOOOO naive to think that this problem isn't rampant I the NFL. These guys are huge, and have so much to gain and so much to lose.
  13. gomezcat

    gomezcat It's SIR Moderator to you Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Excellent point. I was wondering the same thing myself, i.e. how we would feel if a opponent got caught. Apology or not, I would expect the person to "do the time". I guess that extends to Rodney. It's disappointing, I must admit.
  14. scout

    scout Rookie

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    After digesting this information, my thoughts are, are there any other Patriots that will get caught? I'm assuming that the the percentages favor other players taking HGH. The hypothetical question is really difficult to answer. I deplore Bonds because of his arrogant attitude and his allegedly cheating. As a fan I'd say no, I wouldn't take performance enhancing drugs. But, a person never knows how they will react until that experience presents itself. Would you dive in front of a car to save a child, or stay faithful to your spouse, fudge numbers at work? Olympic athletes were asked a question years ago, if you could improve your performance with a drug, but live only five more years, would you take it (question may be a little off, but fairly accurate). The answer was overwhelmingly, yes. Would I take HGH if I was an athlete? I would like to believe I wouldn't.
  15. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    This sums up my attitude exactly.
  16. LloydBraun

    LloydBraun Rookie

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    Even the Bonds situation, and by no means do I condone Bonds' actions, but he looked at McGwire and Sosa and saw two guys without half the talent he has and they were the paster boys of baseball. Due to alleged PED's, they were receiving all the glory while he was the most talented player wasting away in obscurity.

    Then, Bonds has an old buddy come along and offer him an undetectable, at the time, way to equal and surpass these guys. Yes, totally unethical, but if everyone is doing it the thinking may change.

    Bonds had his reasons. Wrong, yes. But he had his reasons.
  17. Funktopus

    Funktopus Rookie

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    I wouldn't do it for the money or to enhance my athletic performance beyond its natural level, but if I thought it would improve my health or help me recover from an injury, I would definitely do it.
  18. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I wouldn't do it, but I can understand where you are coming from. There are a lot of screwed up parents making these decisions for their kids right now. They are messing with the human body and don't the effects they are having. It's even in our food. Go eat Ben & Jerry's will ya? It contains an anti-freeze agent taken from the glands of bottom feeding fish, it preserves ice cream in heat. I know a few geneticists that are convinced the stuff is incredibly dangerous. But hey if it keeps ice cream from melting...

    I don't think this is out of character at all. The very thing that makes us love Rodney is what made him take this stuff in the first place. We love him because he absolutely loves to play football, itches to get out there, and he knows he's at the end of the line and, even though he knew it was wrong, risked it fr one last hurrah. The guy has always been willing to risk abuse to his body. Let's face the truth. This is a sport in whcih Bruschi got out there in the same season after he suffered a stroke. Football is in the blood for these guys. Harrison is not Katzenmoyer.

    Why do parents give their kids HGH? Why is this drug abused by doctors all over th US? Why do parents in Texas keep their kids back so that they can play football against younger kids?

    People's priorities are messed up. Rodney's decision is messed up. But we can't pretend it's not consistent with everything Rodney has done in his career until this point. I think it is. The guy has 1 or 2 years left, barely played the last 2 years, is coming off a knee injury, and sped it up to end his career the way he wanted. Hmmm, makes sense. And it's really too bad. Look at Ted Johnson. Depression, headaches, broken marriage, AND he's putting out feelers to see if he can come back and play.
  19. Dragda

    Dragda Yes, it's really me... PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Absolutely not. I like money, but its only money. I am through with any type of drug. Nothing can make me take one ever again.
  20. DarrylS

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    Nicely said, this coupled with being on the big stage for so long makes a player want to stay there longer...
  21. PatsFanInVa

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    Can't even put myself in the "I would"/"I wouldn't" mindset.

    I'd like to think not, but it's not my world. Maybe I would. But not everybody would, and there are known penalties for those who do.

    I mean, I am as "understanding" of Rodney as I am of Merriman.

    If it's cheating, it's cheating, whether you are a young guy trying to dominate the league from the get-go, or an older guy trying to come back.

    It either IS or IS NOT something for the league to stamp out. I never got on much of a soapbox about it before, be it Bonds, Merriman, or whoever (oh and yes, HGH may as well be steroids, if you ask me.)

    But basically point is, I believe it is something to stamp out. This has to be part of it, if it's one of our guys that gets busted. As Rodney said, no excuses.

    If that's what it took, Rodney might be just one more injury from the end of the line... and I don't mind that a fan favorite might have to leave the game sooner.

    These guys don't owe us that screwed up of a mindset, of getting on these substances. If it's a matter of "heal fast or be cut," it's going to be the same story elsewhere as well. My guess is with Rodney it's not the money driving it, or the couple more years on the field, it's the game & the winning.

    So what can I say? I AM like a Bonds fan or a Merriman fan in a way.

    I mean, I don't say "It's no big deal." I say "Do the crime, do the time" (a 4 week suspension.) I also say boot his ass if there's any kind of pattern.

    But I also say I understand totally that I am no better... only that even the weakest (not that Rodney is in any way "morally weak" in general...) but even the weakest are strengthened when uncertaintly of outcome is removed.

    That's a fancy way to say that Rodney might be a fantastic "high character guy" who got busted his first time out -- doesn't matter, from that perspective. The game's bigger than him. He's no longer a high-character guy. His record's got a blot.

    I hope he spends the rest of his career clean, and this is a one-time, really hugely embarassing eff-up.

    I also hope (and actually, I think this is the case,) that it's about love of the game rather than a need for the money.

    Dude, if it's about love of the game... well, just love it a little less. Especially when Dr. Feelgood is around. Maybe you recover a little slower now.

    Maybe you don't recover fast enough for the Pats anymore.

    Maybe you don't recover fast enough for the NFL anymore.

    Then that's nature's way of telling you to go home.

    Now don't get me wrong, you would be going with the love of every Pats fan who ever saw you pick off Satan Manning, or put a shoulder into a receiver across the middle. But if it/when it does come down to that? Don't do it again on our account. Let us whine and moan on our little fan boards til the cows come home... and just take off somewhere to catch some fish.

    Now, if it IS about the money? Come on man. Less love, but same idea applies.

    One caveat... I'd like to spend the morning crowing about how Rodney's different, splitting hairs, etc. Don't get me wrong... I just can't.

    He did the crime... part of "doing the time" is that guys like us that WANT to sing his praises can't. Just can't, unless we're idiots. It's an awkward position.

    HEY, Rodney, here is the deal: I will never know the physical pain you guys go through for the career, the glory, and yes, the money.

    You might never get that guys making 25, 50, 100 grand a year... are WANTING to defend you, a multimillionaire trying to extend his career...but we can't. Just can't do it.

    I don't want to make a big deal about it, and can't wait until posts touching on Rodney will be touching on a game-changing hit or interception. But right now, dude, that kind of sucks.

    See you in 5 weeks.

    PFnV
  22. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And my admiration to you, Wicked !
    I would hate for anyone to force you to "do it or anything else wrong like that".

    But why do so many find it so noble
    to use force to forbid Rodney ... or anyone else ...
    to take such measures to regain their health
    as they alone - sovereigns of themselves - see fit?
  23. rabthepat

    rabthepat Rookie

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    Ditto.........
  24. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick Rookie

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    would I take it? I don't know, but it doesn't matter. Even if I did take it, it wouldn't make it right, and I think that is what you are ensinuating.

    It's kind of like the Sammy Sosa corked bat situation. After he got caught, there were articles that corking a bat doesn't really affect hitting a baseball. Well, that doesn't matter, because whether it helps or not, Sosa knowingly used a corked bat to gain a competitive advantage. He cheated, plain and simple.

    Rodney took HGH knowing fully well that it was illegal. He cheated. No 'ifs', 'ands', or 'buts' about it.


    So are you also insinuating that it is also okay to do wrong if you very confident that you will get away with it? That seems to be your implication based on the fact that the NFL doesn't test for HGH.

    I'm sorry, but I guess I don't get with the purpose of this thread. Are we supposed to sympathize with Rodney. Why in this society do we always love to turn the criminals into victims?
  25. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think Rodney did it for "the money" he did it because I beleive he wants to play so bad.

    And I would do the same thing under that mind set.
  26. Wotan_the_Wanderer

    Wotan_the_Wanderer Rookie

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    Bingo, and for a ball-busting, blowhard, you tend to get things right often.

    "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" - Matthew 16:26

    Rodney offense, however, isn't even close to being beyond redemption for I don't think his offense was all the grave and also think the rules and attitudes concerning HGH need to be reexamined. Nevertheless, the current rules and ethics are what they are, and as such I would not violated them regardless of the gains.
  27. Vern

    Vern Rookie

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    The correct answer is: it depends on the drug. The government bans or makes illegal all kinds of very useful medical treatments for stupid cultural reasons (not to mention all kinds of victimless vices). Sports leagues are then forced to follow suit.

    I know for sure I'm taking any drug that my best research and due diligence tells me will make me healthier, and I'll do that for zero money, hell, I'll pay money for the chance to do it.
  28. jct

    jct Rookie

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    The way you asked the question only a fool,saint or multimillionare would say no.
    Hell Yes!!:cool:

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