Welcome to PatsFans.com

Say What? Democrats Mull $300 Billion Stimulus

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Oct 15, 2008.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,853
    Likes Received:
    151
    Ratings:
    +320 / 4 / -2

    Are they out of their minds? How much is this now?



    OCTOBER 15, 2008

    Democrats Mull $300 Billion Stimulus

    By GREG HITTArticle

    WASHINGTON -- Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill are drawing up plans to toughen oversight of the financial industry and considering introducing another economic-stimulus package in the wake of the government's decision to buy stakes in major U.S. banks.


    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is mulling recommendations from several economists that Congress act on an economic-recovery package that would cost taxpayers $300 billion, according to congressional aides, equivalent to about 2% of the country's gross domestic product.

    The California Democrat envisions a bill that would include new spending on highways and bridges, extended benefits to unemployed workers, aid to cash-strapped states and a tax cut, congressional aides said. She has asked several House committees to examine details of a possible plan. And as part of the effort, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke is expected to testify next week before the House Budget Committee on the state of the economy. Ms. Pelosi is expected to call lawmakers back to Washington in late November to take up the issue.

    Democrats Mull $300 Billion Stimulus - WSJ.com
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,426
    Likes Received:
    149
    Ratings:
    +306 / 9 / -9

    #24 Jersey

    Get used to it, we'll be spending like never before. I know, Bush, Bush, Bush, etc. However we have seen nothing compared to what Obama, Nancy and Harry will come up with. And if the Dems get to 60 in the Senate, oh my lord.

    I'm not trying to be partisan or a scare monger but it is what it is. Most of Bush's spending was on the war and on the prescription drugs added to Medicare. The next 4 years will be a spending frenzy. That is undebatable, the only issue is whether the spending is good or not - the fact that the spending will happen is written in stone.
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,962
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ratings:
    +210 / 3 / -10

    And we're not in a recession....RIGHT?:rolleyes:

    The worst part about this is even if it passes, the economy will still be in recession. It's almost as if they're gearing up for depression with this kind of spending and these kinds of programs.

    Like I said, our gov't has become wimps. NO longer are Americans tough enough to endure hard times.

    No matter what they do, we're in for hard times RW. it's too little and too late
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,853
    Likes Received:
    151
    Ratings:
    +320 / 4 / -2

    I actually think that we're set up for a quicker recovery than most people realize. There is the infusion of cash by the fed into the credit markets, the liquidity being fed globally into the banking system, tumbling oil prices (down to $72 - oil is used in EVERYTHING), and a still falling housing market. I think the environment for a quicker recovery is possible. My worry is with this reactionary, over influx of cash into the economy. We run the risk of an artificial explosion again, only with a worse bottom line (deficit) than before. Rates are still too low, housing is still dropping, and the gubmit is dangerously flooding the market with cash, before bad habbits, and practices, have had sufficient time to correct themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if we experience another 2004-06 mini-boom, with a sharp crash there after. I just think a lot of what's being done, while it might be necessary, is being done to hastily.
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,962
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ratings:
    +210 / 3 / -10


    Question: Why is it Americans think booms are supposed to last years and recessions only months?

    It is definately too reactionary. Just look at the $700 billion recovery act. They're not doing anything they said they were going to do with the money. They're shooting from the hip.

    I'll disagree with your position that we may be set up for quick recovery. Remember, recovery all depends upon consumers spending and virtually nothing else. The problem is, consumers have no money to spend and are actually changing their ways and saving...which is what we prefer to spending. My hope is that consumers don't start spendig even when everything stablilizes because saving is just as important as spending to our economy.

    There are too many negative factors to work out for a quick recovery unless you think 18-36 months is quick. It will take at least all of 2009 to settle the housing decline and that stops a lot of spending from happening.

    No offense RW...but I find Americans and our politicians to be amusing when they want to talk recovery when the downside has barely begun. That's not in reference to your post but more the MSM. They can talk recovery until they're blue in the face, our economy is the most messed up it's been since the depression.

    We need to stop talking "quick fix" cause it aint gonna happen. Patience and prudence would be better things to discuss. Like "let's make sure we do this right" and NOT create another bubble of false hope.

    Americans need to watch for potential bubbles and make sure we tell Washiongton, "Don't you dare even think about it!!"
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2008
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,853
    Likes Received:
    151
    Ratings:
    +320 / 4 / -2

    Consumers are going to spend, cuz if oil costs keep dropping, we're talking a couple hundred billion of immediate cash relief right there alone. Remember, fuel cost increases affect everything. Oil has halved in the last 6 months. Don't discount what that means to any possible recovery. While consumer sales are down big, so is are wholesale prices, and the producer price index. Also, low rates, housing prices not seen in over a decade, and the availability of credit via a government guarantee, make a quick recovery possible. I'm not saying that one will happen. I'm merely saying that the market conditions are making that a possibility. Especially if oil continues to tumble. My fear is too quick a recovery, and another artificial boom like we've had in the last 7-8 years, with no lessons learned. Oh, and don't forget a bottomed(ing) stock market. What happens if some earnings reports, or labor comes in positively in the spring? It means the market could have a huge bounce, which might be artificial if people haven't learned any lessons.
  7. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    I've actually heard that McCain recently came out saying that he would support a stimulus package as well. Awesome!
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,853
    Likes Received:
    151
    Ratings:
    +320 / 4 / -2

    The people leading this country are absolutely clueless.
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,962
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ratings:
    +210 / 3 / -10

    You make an excellent point about the gov't spawning new bubbles RW! Let's just hope that doesn't happen. They'd have to be idiots...but then again, maybe they are!

    Most companies who raised their prices due to the increased cost of oil have not and will not lower them. Only variable cost goods like food will drop. Companies like mine (vitamins) who raise their prices, will never lower them. Most manufacturers have never lowered the cost of their goods in their history. Now I'm talking about consumer products and not televisions, etc.

    Just look at the number of consumer goods retailers that are on the verge of bankruptcy....Sears, Linens & Things, Circuit City, Mervins, Jos A Bank, KMart, Starbucks

    one of the biggest things holding consumers back is the tremendous amount of debt they have accrued. That will take time to pay down. If and when credit loosens up, there will be little demand for it since consuers are already over-leveraged.

    I have a brother who ran up credit card debt while his wife took time off from work to raise their children. He told me he didn't care because his home was increasing in value every year by $30-$40K and he'd re-finance. A ton of people were doing that and now they're left holding the debt and can't re-finance. And their home values are dwindling.

    25% of all annual retail sales are generated by "Holiday Sales". So keep your eye on that in the coming weeks. If it's really bad, you'll see bankruptcies and lay offs and if that happens, unemployment will soar and consumer spending will drop even more.

    Time will tell RW!

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>