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Sarah Silverman: 'The Entire Fox News Channel is a 24-Hour a Day Racism Engine'

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DisgruntledTunaFan, Jun 2, 2010.

  1. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Patters, he's laughing because it's painfully obvious that everything you're saying is a complete lie. It's always humorous watching someone completely confused and sheltered squirm. Your opinions and near obsession with race perfectly reflect a person who doesn't actually socialize and converse with people outside his own race very often, if even at all.
     
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Perhaps you did not notice that this thread is about race, and I did not start it. That said, I truly believe that most racists are conservatives (though there are exceptions) and that conservative does not always mean Republican. The fact that conservatives get so defensive when issues of race are brought up I think supports my belief. An example of defensiveness is your attempt to personalize the discussion, without an iota of evidence, rather than confront the real issues. But, I find that feeble and baseless effort on your part sad, not humorous, and it suggests that you're not intellectually capable of honest discussion on this difficult issue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
  3. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I'd like to agree with Patters that most adults don't have a ton of friends.
    I think younger people tend to claim people as "friends" rather liberally.
    But, that's besides the point.
    I'd also like to agree that Patters appears to have some sort of repressed white guilt or something, though I don't think it has to do with the cultural diversity of his friends circle.

    edit: repressed white guilt + political correctness = above average sensativity to issues of race
    :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's no white guilt. There's a knowledge of prejudice that comes with being gay; there's my personal knowledge of racism. For instance, after moving from an all black area of the Bronx (Morrison Avenue) when I was 10 to a 99% white suburb of NYC, I did yard work for the mayor, who knew where every black person in the town lived and called them picaninnies.In addition, my family was ostracized by several of our neighbors because we had black friends. (When I asked my 10 year old neighbor why he would not be my friend, he said, "Because you have black friends.) So, I come into this discussion not only with those experiences, but that of being gay and experiencing firsthand the kind of prejudice that still exists in society today. It's natural that white people are fairly unaware of the real life experience of black people, but it's odd that so many white people seem to think that black people are lying about this issue or are simply trying to beat the system or are lazy.

    As I said earlier, I think one of the complications in a discussion like this is that conservatives seem to regard racism as limited to lynching, using the n-word, and advocating slavery. For instance, many conservatives here defended Rand Paul's belief that Macy's, for instance, should be allowed to turn away black people if it wanted to. Most liberals would regard that view as racist, since it inherently supports racist beliefs, but conservative see it otherwise. That is the issue I generally try to confront when I argue race issues in this forum.
     
  5. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Private clubs and such are already allowed to be exclusive, why not allow private business the same perogative? The only difference is that the free market will crush a company that decides to try and exclude potential customers for no reason.
     
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Like I said before...

    Alow any business to discriminate as much as they want. As long as they understand that when their building is broken into or is on fire, they're on their own. And when they want to sue someone, they won't be allowed to use my courts. And they can't use those courts to incorporate or file their deeds. You can have your own well water and septic so that won't be a problem...unless of course you want to do business in a developed area.
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's not true. There's plenty of discrimination even today. I worked in the corporate world for 15 years, for two top companies, and I know for a fact that my gender and my Irish last named served me. The kind of racism that exists today is somewhat under the radar, but it's still there. And, how would legalizing discrimination play out for Muslims, gays, and other less popular minorities? Do you think a business that did not sell to Muslims or gays would fail if it was located in a predominantly white, conservative area?
     
  8. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    Except that it was the Democrats who mostly opposed civil rights reform. Your concept of "conservative" is a kitchen sink of everything that's bad. Maybe if you read more, opened your mind more, you wouldn't narrowly define things as much.
     
  9. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    No matter what we do there will always be discrimination, but I think we should let society judge them as opposed to always trying to give hand outs to make things more "equal".
    Think about affirmative action. Sure, in theory it's a good idea right? We need to help minorites become more equal. Well, how do you think all the "white" (for example) people think when they lose their job to a less qualified person due to skin color, or how about the people who now have to work with them? I would argue the discrimination would be worse.
    I'll give you a current example I deal with.
    I'm in the military and about 30 years ago they allowed women to serve. They lowered standards for women to be able to serve. My current thoughts? I absolutely hate having women in the military. Are there good females? Without a doubt, I've known a few, but more often than not even if they are slightly less than par, in my mind I dislike them. Is this fair? No. And then when I have to discipline a female soldier, good god, do I be extra harsh to try and toughen her up or do I be extra lax because I know I'm predjudiced to her and I want to be fair?
    It's one of my arguements as to why gays serving "openly" will be far less of an issue than people think. They are already serving, they are already meeting the same standards, and the lesbians usually meet the male standards anyway!! (ok, that was stereotypical and probably impolite, but kind of true too. Some of those chicks would kick my butt!!)
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First, I already noted that I'm talking about conservatives and liberals, not Democrats and Republicans. Second, you have a basic fact wrong (that you could have easily checked), namely Democrats and Republicans voted in favor of Civil Rights (but Republicans voted by larger numbers) by large percentages. Third, you're talking about events from nearly two generations ago. Did you know that in the interim, JFK/LBJ pushed the Dixiecrats (who were the Dems who voted against Civil Rights reform) out of the party and Reagan scooped them up? There are many other points, too, such as the irony of the fact that conservatives take pride in the fact that Republicans by larger margins than Democrats voted against state rights in their vote for Civil Rights.
     
  11. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    There's no irony there. One of the Federal governments chief duties is regulation of inter-state trade and to establish those standards. We battle against the overall growth of the Federal government and its power to influence states with federal tax dollars -- personally, I believe this country is too large with too many disparate interests for one overall mandate in all facets of live. There are geographic and cultural differences in this country and to try to stamp them all out will just cause us to fracture.
     
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You have an interesting perspective. The feminist argument to what you said would be along these lines: The military has historically been set up by men, thus all its definitions of what constitutes a good soldier are more suitable to men than women. Women bring their own set of strengths into the military, but the male-dominated military, is not yet able to tap into those strengths. (And I know a number of lesbians who would not be at all offended by your stereotype of them!) As far as how you should handle female soldiers, you certainly have a conundrum.

    As far as Affirmative Action goes, it was useful when it first came about. After all, you had government offices (such as fire and police departments) and businesses that were overwhelmingly and rather irrationally white. They had built-in infrastructures that found multiple ways to exclude blacks. Affirmative action was the only effective way of confronting institutional barriers. Affirmative Action served a useful purpose once, and now it's far less useful.
     
  13. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Now what exactly are those "strengths" that women have that would be helpful to the military? Please be specific. Are women stronger than men? Smarter than men? Are they better able to think strategically?

    Here's your problem: We are all allowed to talk about the "strengths" of women and things they do better than men, but once someone utters a suggestion that maybe... just maybe... there are certain things that men do better than women, then all heck breaks loose. The offender is immediately labelled a racist/sexist/misogynist/etc, followed by the usual calls for his termination. If you don't believe me, just ask that Harvard President who said (paraphrasing) "gee, ya know, maybe we should consider the possibility that maybe men are, on average, a little better at math and science than women."

    Now, for about 6,000 years of human existence before the 20th century, the ability to fight in a war has depended 100% on physical strength, speed and stamina. I know this is going to blow your mind but, on average, men are significantly better in all 3 of those categories than women.

    In the modern military, there are chances for women to succeed in what are called "button pushing" jobs. A woman can press a button launching a Tomahawk cruise missile just as well as a man. But when it comes to storming beaches, I doubt there are many men who want Suzie Sadface in the foxhole next to them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
  14. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm sure the "feminists" are absolutely esctatic that you have to illustrate their talking points.
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It would be better if this forum had more women, but in the absence of that, I think feminism is quite interesting, and their perspective has a degree of validity. I often think of it in terms of "great literature" and "IQ tests," both of which were defined by white men and as a result white men tend to be the greatest writers and do best on the tests they created. There are other points of view, of course, but the feminist perspective is quite interesting and deserves to be illustrated, whether by a guy or woman does not matter to me. Does it to you?
     
  16. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    Well... there used to be more white men which is probably why. It's only more recently (last century or so) that women began to outnumber men. I tried looking for stats to back up that theory but couldn't find an analysis. Though I did not the number of articles that say "women NOW outnumber men" in X,Y or Z which would mean a recent change.
     
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't have a strong point of view on this because, while I'm well read on feminism, I am not well read enough on military matters. One feminist argument (by Jean Baker Miller of the Stone Center) is that women, because they have to navigate a male-dominated world, are better at reading individual cues and behaviors. If there's truth to that, then perhaps women would be more effective at interrogation and other one-on-one situations. In addition, I think women are often smaller, which might be useful in certain situations. While physical strength, speed, and stamina have been useful historically, the military has changed a lot since Roman times. But, I know where you're coming from, so I don't think there's much point in presenting you with a feminist perspective.
     
  18. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I got tears in my eyes laughing at that. Not sure what struck me so hard, but it did. Thank you sir!
    And to counter you, I would MUCH rather have Giselle in my foxhole than Tom Brady (and not because of his gimp knee!)

    I'm anti-militant-feminist. My first year in college I took a literature class from a militant feminist. If you disagreed with her viewpoint she crushed you. I refused to bow to her will and wrote excellent papers which she refused to grade because I didn't focus the paper on her feminist viewpoint. She flunked me.
    I took the exact same class the next semester from another feminist (though a non-militant) and continued to write papers following the guidelines of the class as always, but writing them in my style/viewpoint as opposed to the teachers. I got an A and my teacher loved me.
    Feminism is great, just like religion or any other kind of point of view. The problem is when people take their views and refuse to accept any other point of view or try to force everyone else to see the world through their eyes.
    Tolerance begins with believing that other people have the right to disagree with you!

    (Just for controversy and to add to the stereotype: my first teacher, the crazy feminist that hated me, fat and ugly. The second teacher? HOT! I miss that class...)
     
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    Given the state of modern American men, I wouldn't be too psyched that a lazy, dumb fat guy is next to me in a fox hole. I'd rather have an athletic, smart, kick-arse woman who's a good shot next to me (props to the wife) any day! Plus...they smell nice.

    [​IMG]

    Facing unfit recruits, military leaders target food in schools - USATODAY.com

    I'm not impressed by today's young males on the jobsite in terms of either fitness, motivation or creative initiative AT ALL! Give me a 45 year-old carpenter or plumber any day. Even the kids in the sciences are lame and I find little difference across the board between the abilities of men and women except when it comes to hauling loads and lifting a beam into place.
     
  20. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    LOL so all the young men raised under the crazy liberal policies of the last 30 years don't meet your standard of manliness?
     

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