Salary Cap for 2008 not looking so rosey

[DaBruinz]

So what are the odds that we pay both Stallworth AND Washington the big roster bonus, AND we give Moss a new big contract?

If all three pay so well that we cannot afford to let even one go, then we will have the best set of wide receivers in this and all alternate universes from here to infinity.

But you are missing the point. If Washington made the team along with Stallworth and Moss, and then all 3 were gone next year, the team would be facing 2006 all over again. And none of us wants to see that.

Also, its why I mentioned SAMUEL. He's not signed and, well, I can understand why, currently. There is a lot of forward thinking that has to be done to get his contract done in such a way that its gone small impact on 2008. Otherwise its drastically eats into the 13.4 million I mentoned earlier.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think we need to fire Belichick and Pioli because according to the original post they screwed the cap space for next year and beyond and we should simply make the right choice and hire DaBruinz to manage all of the team and its financial matters.

In 2008 and beyond we are DOOMED!!!

I never said that the Patriots were doomed. Damn you love exaggerating and making yourself look dumb. Good job. Maybe next you can start a thread suggesting the Pats trade Brady or something else just as stupid.

 

[Miguel]

If Stallworth and Washington's contract's have fake years (they do), than 13.4M isn't an accurate figure. Also, with the cap increase they'll probably gain 5M in cap space.

FWIW - My numbers already include the announced increase in the cap to $116 million.

 

[jgb95]

Projected Cap:

2008 - $116,000,000
2009 - $121,800,000

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I never said that the Patriots were doomed. Damn you love exaggerating and making yourself look dumb. Good job. Maybe next you can start a thread suggesting the Pats trade Brady or something else just as stupid.

Like I said,This thread is stupid - My thread never had any rebuttals except from YOU - Yours on the other hand was disagreed with by many in this thread and really most guys on here don't care what happens next year-its THIS year we are concerned with.

Even Miguel,our expert in Cap money in years ahead, disagrees with your assessment of our financial matter-I guess he is wrong too in your opinion,right?

The sky is falling in the future has no real purpose to discuss right now.

Try and come up with a smarter thread/post next time,if you can,it may be hard for you,but try.

Purely Pathetic Post/Thread like it or not :bricks:

 

[solman]

really most guys on here don't care what happens next year-its THIS year we are concerned with.

You can count me as one of the guys who does care about the long term cap situation. But I'm going to make a few predictions:

1. In 2008, the Patriots will again be able to put some of the top NFL talent on the field (ala 2003, 2004 and 2007) without hurting our long term cap situation (ala Indy).

2. In 2009, the Patriots will again be able to put this level of talent on the field, with only a modest hit to our long term cap situation.

3. In 2010, the Patriots will have to go to Indy style long term cap management in order to continue our run. By that time, I'll think that mortgaging our future is a good idea. Brady and BB will only be here for so long. They should have as much chance to pad their legends as possible.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You can count me as one of the guys who does care about the long term cap situation. But I'm going to make a few predictions:

1. In 2008, the Patriots will again be able to put some of the top NFL talent on the field (ala 2003, 2004 and 2007) without hurting our long term cap situation (ala Indy).

2. In 2009, the Patriots will again be able to put this level of talent on the field, with only a modest hit to our long term cap situation.

3. In 2010, the Patriots will have to go to Indy style long term cap management in order to continue our run. By that time, I'll think that mortgaging our future is a good idea. Brady and BB will only be here for so long. They should have as much chance to pad their legends as possible.

I agree in the broad sense. Although the new revenue calculation model may fuel cap growth in excess of current conservative guesstimates. And if they do have to go long in 2010, the networks will be right there to bail them out in 2012 when the new TV deals are negotiated. The problem thereafter won't be absorbing a "situational" dead cap hit from occasional moves like Tommy's strategic restructures..., it will be locating his replacement.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

You can count me as one of the guys who does care about the long term cap situation. But I'm going to make a few predictions:

1. In 2008, the Patriots will again be able to put some of the top NFL talent on the field (ala 2003, 2004 and 2007) without hurting our long term cap situation (ala Indy).

2. In 2009, the Patriots will again be able to put this level of talent on the field, with only a modest hit to our long term cap situation.

3. In 2010, the Patriots will have to go to Indy style long term cap management in order to continue our run. By that time, I'll think that mortgaging our future is a good idea. Brady and BB will only be here for so long. They should have as much chance to pad their legends as possible.

I will only start worrying about the cap situation when the main guy that runs our FO Pioli and Belichick are no longer a part of this team..until then I think those guys are pretty smart enough not to get us into Redskins like Cap hell.

In 5-8 years from now we could be back to a team reminicent of the 1990 Patriots crap squad,but then again the world might end before that,So I will worry about the teams situation at that time.

 

[solman]

I agree in the broad sense. Although the new revenue calculation model may fuel cap growth in excess of current conservative guesstimates. And if they do have to go long in 2010, the networks will be right there to bail them out in 2012 when the new TV deals are negotiated. The problem thereafter won't be absorbing a "situational" dead cap hit from occasional moves like Tommy's strategic restructures..., it will be locating his replacement.

I think that the cap will grow more slowly than the $8M per year Miguel has been projecting. I don't know where the $121.8M figure for 2009 comes from, but I think its accurate. I'll swagger $129M and $135M for the final two capped years (assuming the new union leadership doesn't trigger an early renegotiation).

I agree that the first wave of TV contracts to be renegotiated will include a nice raise, but when the ESPN contract is negotiated (later on) it will almost certainly head downwards. If I were the NFL, I would structure the main TV agreements to prevent total revenues from decreasing in the year after the ESPN renegotiation. This would mute the initial cap jump in favor of a sustained series of jumps in the later years of these agreements.

 

[solman]

I will only start worrying about the cap situation when the main guy that runs our FO Pioli and Belichick are no longer a part of this team..until then I think those guys are pretty smart enough not to get us into Redskins like Cap hell.

I think that part of being smart is knowing when a trip through hell is worth it.

The Patriots are one of a handful of all time extraordinary NFL dynasties. By the end of the 2009 season, we could be unquestionably the greatest dynasty of all time.

Its not reasonable for anyone to expect to replicate this situation. I think BB/SP would be smart to do whatever it takes to keep the dynasty going as long as possible, even if it requires a few years of cap hell after Brady.

 

[cstjohn17]

More info on Brady's contract from the Globe:
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/05/more_brady.html

"Brady's salary cap charge for 2008 will be $14.6 million.

With the salary cap estimated to increase to $116 million in 2008, Brady's deal would account for 12.6 percent of the team's cap."

According to Miguel the Pats are about $12 M under with 39 players signed ( http://www.patscap.com/futureyears.html )
- some UFAs Moss, Samuel, Brushi, Eugene Wilson, Caldwell, Gaffney

As it stands now the entire group of CBs (save Hobbs) will be gone.

I know players can be cut, contracts re-worked, etc. but as it stands now the Patriots are tight against the cap for 08. The issues are compounded by the lack of LBs and CBs drafted in recent years. This is our year to dominate and then we will fall back to the pack.

 

[Grizzafted]

I dont even want to think 2008 till next march

Wow. We sound like Redskins fans suddenly. I'm a little concerned about this, honestly.

 

[He Ban Me]

I will only start worrying about the cap situation when the main guy that runs our FO Pioli and Belichick are no longer a part of this team..until then I think those guys are pretty smart enough not to get us into Redskins like Cap hell.

In 5-8 years from now we could be back to a team reminicent of the 1990 Patriots crap squad,but then again the world might end before that,So I will worry about the teams situation at that time.

You know why BB went and got Moss, right?
Cause he plans on "turncoating" A.V. style

 

[mgteich]

OK, we start will $12M and 39 players. We need a net of $6M for draftees, player 52, player 53, the practice squad and the injury fund. That gives us a budget of $12M for 12 players to meet to 51 player cap.

A $6M free agent budget is plenty for 2008. Many players will be signed at the minimum, or near the minimum, including ERFA's, UDFA's and late round draft choices from this year or next. There will be the usaul coupld of veteran jags (a net of less than $100K each) and the usual 2-4 midlevel free agents at a cap hit of $2M or so.

If we need a MAJOR free agent or two or three, including Samuel or Moss, then we will need restructures from the obvious candidates: Brady, Seymour, Stallworth, Washington and Colvin. I presume that we WILL keep Stallworth and Washington.

Miguel can comment, but I think this is easily doable, although I do realize that this year's SB bonuses will reduce next season cap.

 

[jbb9s]

What about Ty Warren? The 5 yr plan needs to include provisions to get this guy re-signed.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think that part of being smart is knowing when a trip through hell is worth it.

The Patriots are one of a handful of all time extraordinary NFL dynasties. By the end of the 2009 season, we could be unquestionably the greatest dynasty of all time.

Its not reasonable for anyone to expect to replicate this situation. I think BB/SP would be smart to do whatever it takes to keep the dynasty going as long as possible, even if it requires a few years of cap hell after Brady.

That may be true, but I don't think they will need to BECAUSE of Brady. His deal NOW ends with an $8.9M cap hit in 2010. So for those ascared of the $14M hits now projected for 2008 and 2009 (who should check out Miguel's page on Manning's deal), 2010 with an $8.9M projected cap hit against a $125M+ cap lies ready, willing and able to absorb $6M off those cap hits without flinching if they need it before you even contemplate a little strategic dumping into extension years that could stretch into his late 30's.

I'm pretty conservative when it comes to cap manipulation, but even if we keep Stallworth and Washington AS IS and extend Colvin I find I could squeeze another $12-13M out of the existing 2008 roster without even feeling squeezed. That would give us close to $25M with the same 39 players signed. Gee, that's about what we had in the runup to the epic signing season of 2007.

 

[arrellbee]

I had just read the thread where they mentioned that Brady adjusted his contract and such and took a look at the futures page that Miguel has set up and I am a bit frightened.

Going into 2008, the Pats currently have 39 players signed and only 13.4 million in free cap space. Now, I do understand that Stallworth's cap hit and Washington's cap hit are fake. That does free up another 12 million. However, that doesn't include Asante and it doesn't include this year's picks.

Nor does it include the 5 1st day picks that the Pats are likely to have next year.

13.4 million to sign 15 players, 8 practice squadders, and cover people on IR isn't that much...

Now, ways that the Pats can free up a LOT of money? Cut Rosey Colvin and his 7.3 million contract. Or negotiate an extension. Negotiate an extension for Seymour, lowering his cap hits. Cut or re-negotiate Kevin Faulk's contract. Cut or Negotiate an extension for Harrison if he doesn't retire.

2008, almost certainly, looks to be a re-tooling year. Regardless of what happens this year.

It is astonishingly refreshing to find a post about how there may actually not be as much cap space to spend as so many folks 'believe' who want to sign every high priced player they can think of.

Thanks DaBruinz.

It is somewhat amusing to see the switch from: "Why aren't they spending all of the unused cap money" to "is there going to be enough cap money". Good discussion. And it begins to show how difficult and complex the effort is of Pioli and Belichick to put all the pieces together and make all of the tough tradeoffs of what they need to spend versus what they regretably can't afford.

Again, thanks.

 

[Miguel]

With the salary cap estimated to increase to $116 million in 2008, Brady's deal would account for 12.6 percent of the team's cap."

Big deal. Brady's 2006 cap number accounted for 13.8% of the team's adjusted cap number.The Pats did not extend Brady then. Why should they be forced to do so in 2008???

According to Miguel the Pats are about $12 M under with 39 players signed ( http://www.patscap.com/futureyears.html )

I also say on the page - "Please note that these figures do NOT include any escalators or incentives that players may reach" but somehow that very important detail continues to be ignored. Please note that none of us know what players may/will suffer injuries during the 2007 season that may affect their availability for the 2008 season.

 

[PatsFan37]

Wow, either Kraft is cheap or we're heading for cap hell, nothing in between. Hon, bring another set of worry beads, will ya, I've worn out the first.

Really, can't we just trust these guys and enjoy the moment? Me, I'm looking forward to a zone-blocking, hard-running, deep passing offense that can score a TD in 3 seconds, or burn the clock for a nine-minute drive.

What a year we have in front of us!

 

[Miguel]

If we need a MAJOR free agent or two or three, including Samuel or Moss, then we will need restructures from the obvious candidates: Brady, Seymour, Stallworth, Washington and Colvin. I presume that we WILL keep Stallworth and Washington.

Seymour, at best, can be a minor source to free up cap space. His 2008 cap number - 6,826,720 is made up of
$720,000 salary
$106,720 offseason workout bonus
$6,000,000 prorated signing bonus proration.

The most that the Pats could lower Seymour's 2008 cap number is $410,000 by converting all of his salary and $100,000 of his offseason workout money into a signing bonus.