Safety

[mgteich]

There seems little excitement here about drafting a safety in the first 3 rounds to groom for 2012. Some have projected a safety later or a corner to be moved to safety. As of now, I tend to agree.

I expect that we will re-sign/extend either Meriweather or Sanders after this season. If this happens (as seems likely), and we bring in usual veteran free agent as a backup each year, there seems to be no pressing need at safety.

STARTERS Meriweather, Chung, Sanders
(pro-bowler, future pro-bowler, defensive signal caller and Belichick favorite)

VET BACKUP Page, McGowan or a free agent TBD

STers Lockett, Brown, Barrett

Obviously, as Arrington did in 2010, one of the STers could step up for some reps as a position safety.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

There aren't a lot of Safeties worth a second or third round pick, there are a couple CBs whom I'd be interested in for FS.

 

[MaineMan]

In case it hasn't been previously noted here, Barrett, who was RFA I believe, was signed through 2012 this week.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Cant see them drafting a safety this year with the subpar class. Only guy I really like is Dowling.

They have so many safeties already. Meriweather, Chung, Sanders, Brown, Barrett. Page or McGowan could be back too, and Lockett was on IR last year.

Too many other needs to go safety.

Personally, I'd shop around the Big Bang Clock. Someone will give you something good for him after coming off back to back "Pro Bowls." Sell high while you can b.c he's not the long term answer at FS

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Cant see them drafting a safety this year with the subpar class. Only guy I really like is Dowling.

They have so many safeties already. Meriweather, Chung, Sanders, Brown, Barrett. Page or McGowan could be back too, and Lockett was on IR last year.

Too many other needs to go safety.

Personally, I'd shop around the Big Bang Clock. Someone will give you something good for him after coming off back to back "Pro Bowls." Sell high while you can b.c he's not the long term answer at FS

What do you think we could get for Meriweather?

I think he's good, not great, and doesn't seem to be the long-term answer. We'd lose a bit with Sanders back there, but if we can re-sign McGowan and/or Page, that's a pretty solid group with some young kids in Brown and Barrett.

I'm sure we won't get more than a 3rd for Meriweather under normal circumstances. At the same time though, with such a weak draft class for safeties, could we get more? Do you think some team would be willing to give up a late 2nd? Is that crazy thinking?

 

[MaineMan]

What do you think we could get for Meriweather?

I think he's good, not great, and doesn't seem to be the long-term answer. We'd lose a bit with Sanders back there, but if we can re-sign McGowan and/or Page, that's a pretty solid group with some young kids in Brown and Barrett.

I'm sure we won't get more than a 3rd for Meriweather under normal circumstances. At the same time though, with such a weak draft class for safeties, could we get more? Do you think some team would be willing to give up a late 2nd? Is that crazy thinking?

I don't see us re-signing McGowan. Chung has already surpassed him.

WRT a Meriweather trade, I don't see a huge market competition for his services at FS.

DEN? -- Dawkins is old and expensive, but they have McBath. Maybe for vet depth.
BUF? -- George Wilson(FA), Jarius Byrd. Doubtful.
CLE? -- They have Elam (FA), Ray Ventrone and Piscitelli. So, maybe.
SF? -- Goldson (FA), CJ Spillman. Possibly.
DAL? -- Alan Ball (FA), Danny McCray. Possibly.
HOU? -- Just let go of Eugene Wilson, but they like Tom Nolan.
OAK? -- Michael Huff(FA), Hiram Eugene (FA), Stevie Brown[rk]. Possibly.

So, that's six teams and it might be stretching it for a couple of those. I don't really see any other teams in dire need. Any pick we get seems likely to be a 2012, possibly even conditional. We might not be offered much more than we'd get for him as a compensatory pick in 2013 (3rd or 4th, contingent on a lot of other factors).

 

[Metaphors]

there seems to be no pressing need at safety.

One could make a similar assessment of each position (with Mankins franchised and Light likely to re-sign). Not saying I agree, but that contention could be made. So the question for this draft is less about filling needs than it is about upgrading the roster. So for safety, are there any candidates that would be an upgrade (immediate or very short-term) over those currently on the roster.

My take? If Rahim Moore's tackling and Deunta Williams' health check out, I would strongly consider taking them and either bouncing Sanders (immediate upgrade) or trading Meriweather (roster management if not willing to re-sign him). Moore may take #33 but Williams may slide precipitously due to a poor senior season (mostly not his fault) and a nasty injury.

 

[Off The Grid]

One could make a similar assessment of each position (with Mankins franchised and Light likely to re-sign). Not saying I agree, but that contention could be made. So the question for this draft is less about filling needs than it is about upgrading the roster. So for safety, are there any candidates that would be an upgrade (immediate or very short-term) over those currently on the roster.

My take? If Rahim Moore's tackling and Deunta Williams' health check out, I would strongly consider taking them and either bouncing Sanders (immediate upgrade) or trading Meriweather (roster management if not willing to re-sign him). Moore may take #33 but Williams may slide precipitously due to a poor senior season (mostly not his fault) and a nasty injury.

Good thinking.

Moore and Williams are about the only two guys I'd go for...As of the moment, I'm inclined to see how Stomper does under Patricia, because he's only had the one year at Free Safety, and because he's going into a contract year...and because I don't like this Free Safety class very much.

If he evolves, we can sign him to a long term deal OR Franchise him and move him at a REALLY high price.

I actually think most Patriot fans underestimate his Value on the Trade Market: I think we can pick up a 2nd Rounder and change for him...perhaps more.

And if we ride with'm, and trade'm a year, hence?? Consecutive 2nd Rounders, is my sense, AND change!! And perhaps scoop up Kenny Tate with one'f'm.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I don't see us re-signing McGowan. Chung has already surpassed him.

WRT a Meriweather trade, I don't see a huge market competition for his services at FS.

DEN? -- Dawkins is old and expensive, but they have McBath. Maybe for vet depth.
BUF? -- George Wilson(FA), Jarius Byrd. Doubtful.
CLE? -- They have Elam (FA), Ray Ventrone and Piscitelli. So, maybe.
SF? -- Goldson (FA), CJ Spillman. Possibly.
DAL? -- Alan Ball (FA), Danny McCray. Possibly.
HOU? -- Just let go of Eugene Wilson, but they like Tom Nolan.
OAK? -- Michael Huff(FA), Hiram Eugene (FA), Stevie Brown[rk]. Possibly.

So, that's six teams and it might be stretching it for a couple of those. I don't really see any other teams in dire need. Any pick we get seems likely to be a 2012, possibly even conditional. We might not be offered much more than we'd get for him as a compensatory pick in 2013 (3rd or 4th, contingent on a lot of other factors).

Thanks for the dose of reality. Depressing, but much needed. Unless of course we can get crazy Al to make a bid so he could make Meriweather the highest-paid safety in the league.

I'd rather have Page than McGowan, but I wouldn't be opposed to both if this trade happened. I like the idea of re-signing McGowan if we traded Meriweather because he was pretty good in coverage on TEs, and with Sanders filling the FS spot, there would be a role for McGowan. Plus I think (hope?) he would be cheap coming back from his injury.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

My take? If Rahim Moore's tackling and Deunta Williams' health check out, I would strongly consider taking them and either bouncing Sanders (immediate upgrade) or trading Meriweather (roster management if not willing to re-sign him).

Interesting, one might make the argument athletically for an upgrade over Sanders, yet I fail to see an upgrade for the more challenging mental aspects of the position. One could make a case for Chung showing a fair grasp of this role, but I do not believe he's yet a match for Sanders as a Field General ... I don't think it necessary to dwell on Meriweather's performance. Adding another youngster is fine, but I think from an organizational perspective it falls well short of an upgrade (especially when I think back upon Moore's performance in the games I observed).

Tangentially: Bodden returns and pairs with Sanders in the veteran role and McCourty in the coverage assignment. Should NE elect to draft another young CB to develop and compete with Butler, Arrington, and Wilhite, one possible future might see Meriweather gone in Free Agency, Bodden moved to FS, and one of the youngsters teamed with McCourty.

 

[MaineMan]

Thanks for the dose of reality. Depressing, but much needed. Unless of course we can get crazy Al to make a bid so he could make Meriweather the highest-paid safety in the league.

This is never out of the question.

I'd rather have Page than McGowan, but I wouldn't be opposed to both if this trade happened.

I don't know about Page, yet. If he was really good, I'd think we'd have seem more of him. I saw him out of position and racing to catch up a few times - notably Arrington's pick-six appeared to be the result of Page making a panic move to get to where he was supposed to be covering. He didn't seems to make as much of an impact on special teams as, say, Sergio Brown. And there's also a question for me about his "injury proneness." If he's asking for reasonable money (less than what Sanders is scheduled to make, certainly), then I'd be all in favor of re-signing him for camp at least.

I like the idea of re-signing McGowan if we traded Meriweather because he was pretty good in coverage on TEs, and with Sanders filling the FS spot, there would be a role for McGowan. Plus I think (hope?) he would be cheap coming back from his injury.

I keep hearing this, but, really, the only instance I saw was him "shutting down" Scheffler in the Denver game. Other than that, he seemed to screw up coverage assignments quite often, most particularly in the loss @MIA in wk-13, 2009. That said, he was a huge contributor on ST in '09 and certainly our best DB in run support. When Rice broke his 80-yd TD at the start of the playoff game, IIRC, McGowan wasn't on the field. Meriweather appeared to miss his gap assignment and then whiffed trying to make the arm tackle. I remember thinking at the time that McGowan probably would've stopped that play for little or no gain.

In any case, Chung appears to play the run about as well as McGowan did and Chung's coverage, though not great, seems already to have passed McGowan - so McGowan seems a bit redundant at this point. My guess is that the Pats let McGowan walk and take a possible low-round 2012 comp pick for him. That's assuming that we shore up the D-line so they can be more effective stopping the run again.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I don't know about Page, yet. If he was really good, I'd think we'd have seem more of him. I saw him out of position and racing to catch up a few times - notably Arrington's pick-six appeared to be the result of Page making a panic move to get to where he was supposed to be covering. He didn't seems to make as much of an impact on special teams as, say, Sergio Brown. And there's also a question for me about his "injury proneness." If he's asking for reasonable money (less than what Sanders is scheduled to make, certainly), then I'd be all in favor of re-signing him for camp at least.

I agree, he was up and down. But I do think a year in the system will help, especially since he didn't join us until right before the season started. But yes, it'd have to be reasonable.

I keep hearing this, but, really, the only instance I saw was him "shutting down" Scheffler in the Denver game. Other than that, he seemed to screw up coverage assignments quite often, most particularly in the loss @MIA in wk-13, 2009. That said, he was a huge contributor on ST in '09 and certainly our best DB in run support. When Rice broke his 80-yd TD at the start of the playoff game, IIRC, McGowan wasn't on the field. Meriweather appeared to miss his gap assignment and then whiffed trying to make the arm tackle. I remember thinking at the time that McGowan probably would've stopped that play for little or no gain.

He did a nice job against Tony Gonzalez vs. Atlanta as well, albeit with some help. Then again, I can't think of many safeties who wouldn't need some help with that match-up. He was definitely lost at times though, which is why Sanders eventually took back the starting job. BB mentioned a lack of communication as an issue with the secondary when Sanders was out. But if Meriweather was traded and Sanders took over the FS spot, then McGowan doesn't carry that responsibility. And again, first year in the system. Sounds a bit like a lame excuse but I think he would be better.

In any case, Chung appears to play the run about as well as McGowan did and Chung's coverage, though not great, seems already to have passed McGowan - so McGowan seems a bit redundant at this point. My guess is that the Pats let McGowan walk and take a possible low-round 2012 comp pick for him. That's assuming that we shore up the D-line so they can be more effective stopping the run again.

I agree with all of that. Just thinking if Meriweather was gone, he might have more of a role for us. I'm really excited about Chung's progress. Still has some work to do as a running back (ugh), but I think he'll have a big year.

 

[MaineMan]

I agree, he was up and down. But I do think a year in the system will help, especially since he didn't join us until right before the season started. But yes, it'd have to be reasonable.



He did a nice job against Tony Gonzalez vs. Atlanta as well, albeit with some help. Then again, I can't think of many safeties who wouldn't need some help with that match-up. He was definitely lost at times though, which is why Sanders eventually took back the starting job. BB mentioned a lack of communication as an issue with the secondary when Sanders was out. But if Meriweather was traded and Sanders took over the FS spot, then McGowan doesn't carry that responsibility. And again, first year in the system. Sounds a bit like a lame excuse but I think he would be better.



I agree with all of that. Just thinking if Meriweather was gone, he might have more of a role for us. I'm really excited about Chung's progress. Still has some work to do as a running back (ugh), but I think he'll have a big year.

IIRC (and I might not be), part of Sanders being out was that he was injured for awhile there. It may not have been the case that he "lost/regained" the starting job to McGowan based entirely on performance.

 

[Seneschal2]

As my sig implies, upgrading any level of the roster is the objective when considering all personnel evaluations. The confusing part for fans is not being privy to the real performance evaluations, along with all $$$ concerns revolving around contract statuses.

Certainly the Pats can upgrade the bottom of the roster (Safety included), but regarding the top of the Safety position, is BB truly content with Meri's on-field performance? Is he a risk/reward player -- a hard hitter but subject to mental errors? Bottom line, is he giving BB what he wants from that position? And are there any concerns over his contract status?

I'm not suggesting Meri will be traded (or ought to be)...just using him as an example of how we really don't know the accurate evaluations of each player, making it difficult to determine the overall quality of positional depth. We can only speculate -- as it's what we do here. But I'm still left with numerous questions concerning roster evaluations -- unless we're running the show. :confused2:

 

[convertedpatsfan]

IIRC (and I might not be), part of Sanders being out was that he was injured for awhile there. It may not have been the case that he "lost/regained" the starting job to McGowan based entirely on performance.

Sanders was injured around week 5, but he lost the starting job week 2 and regained it week 14 after losses to the Saints and Dolphins where the pass defense was atrocious and there were several blown coverages.

James Sanders on the safety competition: ?It?s going to be interesting to see what happens.?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

As my sig implies, upgrading any level of the roster is the objective when considering all personnel evaluations. The confusing part for fans is not being privy to the real performance evaluations, along with all $$$ concerns revolving around contract statuses.

Certainly the Pats can upgrade the bottom of the roster (Safety included), but regarding the top of the Safety position, is BB truly content with Meri's on-field performance? Is he a risk/reward player -- a hard hitter but subject to mental errors? Bottom line, is he giving BB what he wants from that position? And are there any concerns over his contract status?

I'm not suggesting Meri will be traded (or ought to be)...just using him as an example of how we really don't know the accurate evaluations of each player, making it difficult to determine the overall quality of positional depth. We can only speculate -- as it's what we do here. But I'm still left with numerous questions concerning roster evaluations -- unless we're running the show. :confused2:

It could be very difficult to upgrade the top of our safety depth with guys available in this draft.

 

[MaineMan]

Sanders was injured around week 5, but he lost the starting job week 2 and regained it week 14 after losses to the Saints and Dolphins where the pass defense was atrocious and there were several blown coverages.

James Sanders on the safety competition: ?It?s going to be interesting to see what happens.?

Yeah. I have him as out for weeks 5 & 6, then weeks 8, 9, 10 and 12. So, more perhaps than just not being the starter.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Too bad Kenny Tate didn't declare. He looked intriguing. Might have to put off upgrading safety for another year if there's nobody worth taking. The thing about safeties is that you don't necessarily have to use a high pick to find a good one. James Sanders was only a 4th rounder for example.

 

[Off The Grid]

It could be very difficult to upgrade the top of our safety depth with guys available in this draft.

Indeed, sir.

Much as I like the idea of Selling High on a guy who is almost certainly not true Patriot material, I do not see a guy in this Class who looks like he's got the potential impact that Stomper brings...with the exception, of course, of the likes of Patrick Paterson, the pursuit of whom would defeat the entire purpose of Selling High.

No, I would much rather let Stomper play a second year at his new position, with a MUCH steadier crew around him, as will be the case, and do so under a good coach ~ Patricia ~ and in a Contract Year.

I believe he's going to have a MONSTER season for us, and help us win Super Bowl Ring #4.

And at the end of the year, we can reevaluate, and either lock him up...or Franchise him and reap a SERIOUS Bounty.

 

[Sciz]

I agree with that for the most part. Moving Patricia to safeties coach seems like a move to get more out of the talent at that position, so I think of it as trying to salvage Meriweather's career here, rather than getting one more undisciplined year out of him and then watching him walk.