Sad About Branch? - Read This !!

[Pat the Pats Fan]

Just to add to Sam's point....In the past 5yrs try and name a Key Player that left and has done better than he'd done for the Pats. Take your time....there now, IMO-- NONE, ZERO, NADA!!!!!! That's pretty remarkable, and I think gives BB/Pioli a more than decent track record on compensation/talent evaluations, don't you?

I agree too, I don't think any of these players have made SIGNIFICANT contributions to a playoff contender since they left the Patriots. Some have continued to play well and earn a paycheck, and for them its about the payday, not the game. (See Washington, Ted as example number one)

Also, if my quick math is correct, thats 37 players that have left in the 6 seasons BB/Pioli have been here, or 70% of a 53 man roster. That turnover is almost as quick as college. With the average NFL career lifespan under 5 years, a good team must always find ways to refresh and re-energize its core. The BB/Pioli formula works. I no longer question it.

 

[SamBam39]

I agree too, I don't think any of these players have made SIGNIFICANT contributions to a playoff contender since they left the Patriots. Some have continued to play well and earn a paycheck, and for them its about the payday, not the game. (See Washington, Ted as example number one)

Also, if my quick math is correct, thats 37 players that have left in the 6 seasons BB/Pioli have been here, or 70% of a 53 man roster. That turnover is almost as quick as college. With the average NFL career lifespan under 5 years, a good team must always find ways to refresh and re-energize its core. The BB/Pioli formula works. I no longer question it.

just an fyi, I didn't name all the players that left - just some memorable ones.
the turnover rate is actually much, much higher. I didn't name many many lesser-knowns that came and went.

 

[SamBam39]

I'm sorry, but did you just refer to Andy Katzenmoyer as a key player?

alright, alright - I know! I just named players that were well known and might've at one time had high expectations attached to them. we all know andy never got it going with that unfortaunte neck injury.

nick-pickling can be fun though!

 

[SamBam39]

I'm not sold on seau. he and mcginest are two totally different players size wise and skill set wise.

well, realistically, mcginest is getting near the end of the line. he's up there in age and was being used more and more situationally than in the past. Of course it's lousy to see him go because we love him - who will forget that tackle on edgerrin james at the goal line in indy or his sacks on manning? - but BB cut him for a reason. Will junior seau blow our doors off? no. but he'll adequately replace an aging mcginest for a year until we can draft some young studs.

 

[SamBam39]

Just to add to Sam's point....In the past 5yrs try and name a Key Player that left and has done better than he'd done for the Pats. Take your time....there now, IMO-- NONE, ZERO, NADA!!!!!! That's pretty remarkable, and I think gives BB/Pioli a more than decent track record on compensation/talent evaluations, don't you?

thanks and I agree - if you really look at it, who can argue with their ability to make the tough choices and evolve this roster?

people disagreed and cried foul when we drafted seymour instead of terrell.
people disagreed and cried foul when we traded bledsoe.
people disagreed and cried foul when we cut milloy.
people disagreed and cried foul when we drafted watson and mankins.
the 'experts' in the media haven't been able to see what the pats are doing for going on 5 years now. they're still stumped. they still think it's been lucky and it can't keep up. there will have to come a point where people start to finally catch on and recognise what is going on here. it's only the best mgt of any team ever and the greatest dynasty of all time in pro football. when will people see - when they win their 4th lombardi? or will it take their fifth to convince you? don't wait too long - your life will be over or you will have missed the whole dynasty. see what's happening now. that's the point of this post - this branch thing is right in line with what they've been doing for 5 years now - they just keep rotating in better choices for the team - coaching them up, and becoming a deeper and more talented roster. do you understand that they now have 2 1st rounders next year?? do you know how freakin insane that is?
Look at this list of really young, really talented players they have BEFORE next year's draft:
Matt Light, Logan Mankins, Dan Koppen, Stephen Neal, Nick Kaczur, Ryan O'Callahan, Tom Brady, Matt Cassel, Laurence Maroney, Garrett Mills,
Ben Watson, Daniel Graham, David Thomas, Doug Gabriel, Chad Jackson, Stephen Gostkowski, Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, Jonathan Sullivan, Mike Wright, Marquise Hill, LeKevin Smith, Rosevelt Colvin, Asante Samuel, Ellis Hobbs, Randall Gay, Eugene Wilson, James Sanders, Willie Andrews, Patrick Pass.
I think BB/Pioli need to be given a little more faith from the fans under situations like this Branch thing. They will make sure we are ok one way or another. I remember people being concerned when we lost Terry Glenn. Come on - this stuff just keeps happening. We wer fine with the likes of David Patten. BB will fill the void.

 

[Ungeheuer]

I think what people forget is that the Patriots still do invest quite a lot into locking up their own players. In the last few years they've re-signed Brady, Dillon, Seymour, Faulk, Pass, Light, Neal, Vrabel, Colvin (extended a year I think), Hochstein, Green, even Tebucky Jones, among others. They clearly feel comfortable with their own guys and even though they lost a bunch of players this year, they keep enough of their core together so that the team always has continuity along with fresh blood. It's a myth to say the Pats are cold-blooded and always discard players when they've outperformed their rookie contracts. They just won't overpay for guys. I wouldn't have given Branch $39 million either.

 

[godef]

Here are some of the key players that have left the Patriots in each of Belichick's off season's with the team:

2001
Bruce Armstrong
Chad Eaton
Andy Katzenmoyer
Max Lane
Chris Slade
Greg Spires

2002
Drew Bledsoe
Terry Glenn
Brian Cox
Matt Stevens
Jermaine Wiggins

2003
Marc Edwards
Tebucky Jones
Lawyer Milloy
Greg Robinson-Randall
Otis Smith

2004
Terrell Buckley
Mike Compton
Bobby Hamilton
Anthony Pleasant
Antowain Smith
Ted Washington
Damien Woddy

2005
Joe Andruzzi
Ted Johnson
Ty Law
David Patten
Roman Phifer
Keith Traylor

2005
Willie McGinest
Adam Vinatieri
Tom Ashworth
Deion Branch
Christian Fauria
David Givens
Bethel Johnson
Duane Starks

Sheesh! That there is a mostly pretty good football team. Besides for Starks, whom among these would you not at least consider taking back?

Amazing!

 

[SamBam39]

I think what people forget is that the Patriots still do invest quite a lot into locking up their own players. In the last few years they've re-signed Brady, Dillon, Seymour, Faulk, Pass, Light, Neal, Vrabel, Colvin (extended a year I think), Hochstein, Green, even Tebucky Jones, among others. They clearly feel comfortable with their own guys and even though they lost a bunch of players this year, they keep enough of their core together so that the team always has continuity along with fresh blood. It's a myth to say the Pats are cold-blooded and always discard players when they've outperformed their rookie contracts. They just won't overpay for guys. I wouldn't have given Branch $39 million either.

and they don't usually make a splash in the free agent market with big name signings for the same reason - you wind up overpaying to get the guy.
they just keep making sound judgements, and being fiscally prudent - not cheap - just getting good value for their money - and they wind up with a much much better roster than alot of teams and the ability to keep getting better and better through the years - most good teams have to rebuild after a certain number of years.

 

[SamBam39]

Sheesh! That there is a mostly pretty good football team. Besides for Starks, whom among these would you not at least consider taking back?

Amazing!

I know!
Look at those names!

and you know what - our team now is the best it's ever been!

 

[mgteich]

Sure, we're a better team, but let's not sugar coat. In addition to all the draftees who will contribute, we made the following direct replacements.

OUT: McGinist, Branch, Givens, Vinitieri
IN : Seau, Gabriel, Caldwell, Gostowski

Many think the bottom list is better for the team in 2006. Could happen.

Here are some of the key players that have left the Patriots in each of Belichick's off season's with the team:

2001
Bruce Armstrong
Chad Eaton
Andy Katzenmoyer
Max Lane
Chris Slade
Greg Spires

2002
Drew Bledsoe
Terry Glenn
Brian Cox
Matt Stevens
Jermaine Wiggins

2003
Marc Edwards
Tebucky Jones
Lawyer Milloy
Greg Robinson-Randall
Otis Smith

2004
Terrell Buckley
Mike Compton
Bobby Hamilton
Anthony Pleasant
Antowain Smith
Ted Washington
Damien Woddy

2005
Joe Andruzzi
Ted Johnson
Ty Law
David Patten
Roman Phifer
Keith Traylor

2005
Willie McGinest
Adam Vinatieri
Tom Ashworth
Deion Branch
Christian Fauria
David Givens
Bethel Johnson
Duane Starks

And you know what happens each year when we lose these guys? It hurts to see them go, but then we get excited because the new guys they bring in are really good too - often better, and they are often younger and less expensive and our overall team depth gets deeper. If you saw this same list with who got brought in each year yo'd smile and say 'WOW - WHAT A GREAT TRACK RECORD - THAT'S A STEADY STREAM OF GREAT TALENT BEING BROUGHT IN AND GROOMED YEAR AFTER YEAR'.
I hate to see Deion go too, and I don't like hearing the pats locker room is down, but you know what? they'll be fine, both emotionally and talent wise, so just give it some time. this team will be rolling again real soon and now we are all set for another great draft!
gostkowski will replace vinatieri just fine
seau will replace mcginest just fine
gabriel and jackson will replace branch and givens just fine
plus we got maroney
plus we got mills and thomas
plus we got ocallahan
plus we got sullivan
and PLUS we got seattle's number one next draft! (ha!)

it's unfortunate what happened with deion, and I'm disgusted with him as well, the way there were no counter offers and he held the team hostage afte signing a contract, but if he wanted the money that bad for his 'kids' and his 'sense of fairness' then so be it - what were the pats suppossed to do? just give it to him? he's gone and players and fans alike will have to get over it. a few nice catches by gabriel and jackson and we'll all be quickly getting over it just like we did with milloy once we saw rodney hitting people out there!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The Bills almost beat you. I repeat....the Bills almost beat you.

OMG!
I TOTALLY missed the new NFL rules where 'almosts' counted in the standings. My bad!

 

[SamBam39]

Sure, we're a better team, but let's not sugar coat. In addition to all the draftees who will contribute, we made the following direct replacements.

OUT: McGinist, Branch, Givens, Vinitieri
IN : Seau, Gabriel, Caldwell, Gostowski

Many think the bottom list is better for the team in 2006. Could happen.

that's completely wrong - replace caldwell with the highly rated chad jackson and I think we'll be better than ever given a little development time.

don't be so devil's advocate all the time - you always want proof before you commit to something - well sometimes you can't have proof until later - right now - you just have to have faith in BB's judgment. the pats are not gonna go down hill from losing mcginest. or the others. do I have any proof or guarentees? no. but you don't have any they will either. worrying that they're gonna stink is just silly in my opinion - this has been ahppening and happening successfuly for 5 years now brother.

 

[sieglo]

heh heh - yeah your right!

what was I thinking?

guess I just meant he had high expectations and then was gone.


he did totally s**k though.

Starks was listed as a "Key NE Loss" at the beginning of last Sunday's coverage of the Bills game.

 

[SamBam39]

Starks was listed as a "Key NE Loss" at the beginning of last Sunday's coverage of the Bills game.

shows you how little the media really knows about the pats.
alot of them have no clue.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Bills almost beat you. I repeat....the Bills almost beat you.


Translation...
y'all suck.

I have news for you. Almost only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and nuclear bombs.

Translation. YOU need to get a clue.

 

[ATippett56]

The Bills almost beat you. I repeat....the Bills almost beat you.

How is the view ....... from the cellar?

 

[ATippett56]

Just to add to Sam's point....In the past 5yrs try and name a Key Player that left and has done better than he'd done for the Pats.

Jermaine Wiggins with the Minnesota Vikings

http://sports-att.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2398

 

[mgteich]

I don't need proof. bb has said many, many times that he doesn't want to depend on rookies if he doesn't have to. Rookie wide receivers are especially a crap shoot. I don't question bb's judgement in drafting Jackson. I question yours in thinking that the plan was/is to have him be an immediate contributer, or after a little development time.

Who is worrying that they are going to stink? We had four question marks going into this year, quite a lot for a team that would have been in the Super Bowl except for injuries.

K Gostkowski will be as good as Vinitieri would have been this year
CB They looked good against a very bad team, and are basically untested
LB Banta-Cain has stepped up and Seau was a great pickup
WR Apparently the answers have hammys

If Bruschi, Faulk, Gabriel and Jackson are ready for next week, we will have the best team in the league. But we could have been even better. bb is about winning the next game. He is also about building the best team of all time.

We both know why there is so much cap money left, don't we? bb wanted to sign Law and extend Branch. So, now we have a great team with extra money and without the top corner and receiver that we could have dearly used. Can we win without them, and use the money well next year? Sure we can. However, the season would have been a lot easier if we had brought in a top corner and a top receiver. What did Stallworth cost, a fourth? And there is no question in my mind that bb thought that our wr corp needed help. He brought in Gabriel, which might turn out to be a great pickup (I suspect so), or perhaps not. In any case, bb and pioli will continue to be out there trying.

that's completely wrong - replace caldwell with the highly rated chad jackson and I think we'll be better than ever given a little development time.

don't be so devil's advocate all the time - you always want proof before you commit to something - well sometimes you can't have proof until later - right now - you just have to have faith in BB's judgment. the pats are not gonna go down hill from losing mcginest. or the others. do I have any proof or guarentees? no. but you don't have any they will either. worrying that they're gonna stink is just silly in my opinion - this has been ahppening and happening successfuly for 5 years now brother.

 

[SamBam39]

I don't need proof. bb has said many, many times that he doesn't want to depend on rookies if he doesn't have to. Rookie wide receivers are especially a crap shoot. I don't question bb's judgement in drafting Jackson. I question yours in thinking that the plan was/is to have him be an immediate contributer, or after a little development time.

Who is worrying that they are going to stink? We had four question marks going into this year, quite a lot for a team that would have been in the Super Bowl except for injuries.

K Gostkowski will be as good as Vinitieri would have been this year
CB They looked good against a very bad team, and are basically untested
LB Banta-Cain has stepped up and Seau was a great pickup
WR Apparently the answers have hammys

If Bruschi, Faulk, Gabriel and Jackson are ready for next week, we will have the best team in the league. But we could have been even better. bb is about winning the next game. He is also about building the best team of all time.

We both know why there is so much cap money left, don't we? bb wanted to sign Law and extend Branch. So, now we have a great team with extra money and without the top corner and receiver that we could have dearly used. Can we win without them, and use the money well next year? Sure we can. However, the season would have been a lot easier if we had brought in a top corner and a top receiver. What did Stallworth cost, a fourth? And there is no question in my mind that bb thought that our wr corp needed help. He brought in Gabriel, which might turn out to be a great pickup (I suspect so), or perhaps not. In any case, bb and pioli will continue to be out there trying.

Fair enough mgteich. You sounded more critical and doubtful in your previous comments than you do here. I don't think BB wanted to depend so much on jackson either - just saying that now that he has to, I'm confident he'll be able to make him productive - and if not - he'll find an answer.

 

[brdmaverick]

our losses this time around are by far the worst in the past five years