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Ryan O'Callaghan vs. Wesley Britt

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by NordicVoyager, May 13, 2006.

  1. NordicVoyager

    NordicVoyager Rookie

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    I am curious about this community's perspective on two of our OTs: this year's Pats 5th rounder Ryan O'Callaghan vs last year's Chargers 5th round pick (and Pats practice squad player) Wesley Britt. Both are enormous coming out of great productive careers at Cal and Alabama respectively. Thoughts are welcom.
  2. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Britt by a nose. But don't leave Brandon Gorin out of the equation either...
  3. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    Britt has the edge because of experience.
  4. dalero

    dalero PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The competion in camp will be "huge".
  5. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    If one of those guys can't beat Gorin I will be really disappointed in both.
  6. NordicVoyager

    NordicVoyager Rookie

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    I am not sure how many remember that Brandon Gorin's first game was the loss in Pittsburgh that ended the winning streak where he had to play both right tackle and later left tackle. He is listed as 6'6" and about 310. Both Britt and O'Callaghan have another two inches in height at 6'8". If I recall correctly John Hanna played for the Patriots at about 265 and 6'3". Quite an enormous difference!

    Does anyone have a sense of the quickness and footwork of our prospective tackles on the right side?
  7. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Hannah was a guard- I'm sure you knew that:). The running game was so much more important than the passing game back then and the premium was on guards who could pull. Now it's a passing game priority and big fat bodies take precedence.
    Last edited: May 13, 2006
  8. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    I would have thought that smaller quick tackles would be getting more common because of the growing popularity of speed rushing defensive ends like Dwight Freeney, John Abraham, Julius Peppers, Jevon Kearse etc. Jonathan Ogden is a massive, elite tackle yet whenever he plays The Colts he looks like a bum against Freeney.
  9. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    True. The fat bodies were more of a 90s thing. The Denver zone-blocking scheme seems to be proliferating now...
  10. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My take...

    Similarities: 6'8" right tackles, highly productive college careers, major injury histories that caused them to fall to the 5th round.

    Differences:

    Britt played LT to great acclaim at Alabama, but was projected by some to RT because of questionable foot speed. Strength is pass protection; acclaimed for intelligence, leadership and technical soundness. Multiple leg injuries. Has a year on the Patriots' practice squad behind him, with excellent early reports.

    O'Callaghan was a classic road grader on the right side at Cal, where he was given a lot of credit for the team's strong running game. Massive and not mobile -- possible projection to guard. Strength is run blocking; acclaimed for strength and nasty, mauling approach. Multiple shoulder injuries.

    Both could very well make the team.
  11. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

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    What an exhilarating thread!

    Besides patchick's sage observations, RayClay had this thought ... to which i also subscribe:

    If one of those guys can't beat Gorin I will be really disappointed in both.
  12. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess I'd like to see a couple of preseason games before commenting.

    However. O'Callahan is projected as a guard in the NFL. Kaczur was also projected as a guard but we saw how quickly that changed.

    BTW, I think the RT spot will be Kaczur's to lose based on his perfomance last year at LT. So, I don't know why this is about O'Callahan vs Britt.
    Last edited: May 13, 2006
  13. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

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    Sure, Kaczur is the early fave.

    But who ELSE will be on the 53-man final? (My mock roster shows room for only 9 OLs.)
  14. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Pleasant competition...

    It is common wisdom that the best and most talented OLineman is placed at OLT. Gorin did not play left tackle in college. O' Callahan did not play left tackle in college. Wesley Britt made All-SEC several times as a left tackle with a reputation as a very good run blocker. Kaczur and Mankins played left tackle in college.

    In most cases left tackles do not have that rep as run blockers as they are chosen for their athleticism in pass blocking first and foremost.

    Scouts questioned whether Britt could play left tackle in the pros just like they questioned whether Light, Mankins or Kaczur could.

    None of these guys is competing for left tackle though. At right tackle where the competiton is, there is more need for run blocking EXCEPT on teams with a great passing game based on a Superb QB.

    Gorin was a right tackle, O'Callaghan was a right tackle, and Kaczur was a left tackle, along with Britt. IMHO the competiton is between Kaczur and Britt with the incumbant Gorin as third man in the game. O'Callaghan is PS this year.

    On expereince I'd pick Kaczur or Gorin. On fit for the position I'd pick Britt and next year O'Callaghan. Anfd Gorin is the incumbent.

    I expect Britt will lineup at RT on opening day or perhaps platoon with Kaczur and Gorin.

    Just to confuse you it soemtimes has been suggested that the Pats could move Light to Right tackle if a suitable left tackle could be found. Kaczur demonstrated he could do that; and for chuckles Mankins is better than Kaczur. Both could play anywhere. How bout a 5-way competiton at Right tackle?
    Last edited: May 13, 2006
  15. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I doubt that. IR, maybe, is they can work that out but O'Callaghan likely wouldn't make it through waivers as is necessary to go on the PS. There will be a lot of competition, some guys won't make it - maybe an O'Callaghan or a Britt . . . or maybe Gorin. When you account for Light and Koppen coming back, only Ashworth is gone from last year so there's not much room unless a vet goes or an extra OL is kept. And guys like Mruz don't count as he replaced Light or Koppen on the roster. O'Callaghan, Britt (who was on the PS, I think), Stevenson. Only one makes it barring veteran releases.
  16. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    I say may the best man win. It's always good to bring in competition for training camp. And O'Callahan sounds like he could be coached up in coach Dante's system.
    Last edited: May 13, 2006
  17. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I love it when a plan comes together - competition.

    --------------------

    As usual, there will be massive platooning to start the season. My depth chart (which is my competition line-up) looks like this (the second man on the depth chart is the primary competition for the job, the rest of the guys are just in the mix):

    Left Tackle: Light, Kaczur, Britt, Mankins, Roehl
    Left Guard: Mankins, Kaczur, Roehl, Mruczkowski, Tucker, Steitz, Stevenson
    Center: Koppen, Hochstein, Mruczkowski, Tucker, Barthelmes
    Right Guard: Neal, Tucker, Yates, Gorin, Stevenson, O'Callaghan, Roehl, Hand
    Right Tackle: Gorin, Kaczur, Tucker, Britt, Roehl, O'Callaghan, Hand

    Practice Squad Eligibility
    OT: Britt, O'Callaghan, Hand
    OG/OC: Steitz, Stevenson, Barthelmes

    --------------------

    Roster Projections: Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Britt, Gorin, Kaczur, Hochstein, Tucker

    Depth Chart Projection to start the season
    LT: Light, Kaczur, Britt, Mankins
    LG: Mankins, Hochstein, Kaczur, Tucker
    C: Koppen, Hochstein, Tucker
    RG: Neal, Tucker, Hochstein, Gorin, Kaczur
    RT: Gorin, Kaczur, Britt, Tucker

    PSquad Projection: O'Callaghan, Steitz

    Shadow Roster Projection: Mruczkowski, Yates, Roehl, Barthelmes, Hand, Stevenson

    --------------------

    My projected roster creates the greatest flexibility/experience pool on the line. It also gives Dante the option of developing one of his reserves as the primary reserve for each side; e.g. Kaczur takes a series at LT to rest Light, then moves inside to LG for another series to rest Mankins, Britt does the same with Neal and Gorin, but in that case it may work better to have Gorin be the two position player and leave Britt outside when he is in the game.

    For the projected roster, Dante has the flexibility to focus Kaczur and Hochstein as left side reserves, with Tucker and Britt as right side reserves. I doubt he'd do it that way, but he has the talent on hand.

    As I see it, Mankins and Neal have solid leads on their starting slots, the T and C slots are up for grabs.

    BBF - I'm not worried about O'Callaghan making it through waivers, if that is a concern BB just goes with 10 OL on the roster (if he likes O'C enough to protect him). If he goes on IR it may be so Woicik can have him for a year to settle his weight and build up his foot speed. Both he and Hand were unimpressive in pass protection in their All-Star games, but they give Dante and Woicik putty to shape.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2005
  18. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One thing's really obvious...

    Last year O Line was an issue because of the injuries, but it turned out we had decent replacements in our draft class (whew!) It could have been much, much worse.

    This year, while we may not get a huge upgrade (although a healthy Light goes a long way in that direction,) the depth is just silly.

    O-Line is a place where you plug the parts in at your peril.. they need playing time together, or it is a fustercluck. So logically you want minimal injuries (even moreso than elsewhere.) But it's nice to bear in mind what this group brings to the table. I've said elsewhere here I see enormous upside (no pun intended.) The Pats ain't likely to go by the zone blocking model anytime soon - that being the case, it nice to know we've got some hawgs in the mix.

    PFnV
  19. NordicVoyager

    NordicVoyager Rookie

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    Does anyone have any sense how O'Callaghan and the other offensive linemen did in this past weekend's rookie camp?
  20. DarMan

    DarMan Rookie

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    I think O'Callaghan and Britt both make it replacing Ashworth and Gorin
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2005
  21. glecco

    glecco Rookie

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    .....fustercluck?????
  22. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I disagree with you guys on Gorin. Most of you would take an inexperienced rookie and replace last year's starting RT. Further, on game day you are count on Kaycur starting at RT and having O'Callaghan or Britt as the game day backup. I can't see it.
    -------------------------------------------------------
    STARTERS Light,Mankins,Koppen,Neal,Kaycur

    GAME DAY BACKUPS Hochstein and Gorin
    For me, it is unlikely that either of last year's starters will be beaten out of a game day spot, certainly not out of a roster spot. Game day backup OL's backup 2-3 positions, and are usually veterans.

    It is also possible that Kaycur won't be beat out Gorin as the starter at RT. Finally, it is possible that Light might not be ready (I expect that he will). In any case, IMHO, Gorin is a valuable backup.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    THE LAST TWO ROSTER SPOTS - A TACKLE AND A GUARD
    These players could be a developmental player or an all-around veteran. I think Britt and O'Callaghan will duke it out for tackle spot with O'Calaghan winning and Britt to the practice squad. It certainly could ahppen the other way round.

    There is lots of competition for the guard spot. I'm back and forth on this one. My gut feel is that Tucker makes the squad, and Stevenson goes to Practice Squad. I believe that Tucker can play all the OL positions, a perfect #8 OL.



  23. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Well, I don't think they are saying "Let's find an inexperienced rookie (is there an experienced rookie?) to replace the starting RT."

    I think they are saying that one of Britt/Callaghan will be better than Gorin. It doesn't matter who the rookies/vets are. It is a case of which player is better.

    A lot is made here about "how can you replace a vet with a rookie?" but the fact is that 255 guys are drafted each year for the specific purpose of replacing a vet, and at least 2/3 of them do bump a vet off the team.
  24. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1) We should have four OT's. Light and Kancur are two of them.
    2) I think one of Britt or O'Callaghan will make the team.
    3) I don't expect dante to go into Game One with O'Callaghan or Britt as the backup LT.
    4) I expect Gorin (and Hochstein) to make the roster because it very reasonable to have two experienced backups at two of the four backup spots.
    5) Posters are acting as Gorin is the #9 OL on the team, ripe to beaten out. I think this is far from the truth, and there is no reason no to keep inexpensive insurance against injury.

    I agree that I would like to see both youngsters beat out Gorin. That would improve the team if they were both indeed better and ready to go. However, I don't expect it to happen.

  25. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is why I'd love a Dave Thomas to be able to long snap for real or to save a roster spot in a similar manner so that we can keep an extra player here or here. If Thomas can do it, I'd much prefer to keep Stevenson or Britt over Paxton.
  26. GraftonPatsFan

    GraftonPatsFan Rookie

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    Gorin is history.

    Both Britt and O'Callahan are better backup RT options than Gorin.

    I think O'Callahan may get a good look at RG as well. His strength is run blocking.

    Anyonelse see O'Callahan pushing Neal at the RG spot. He was ranked a 2nd or 3 rounder in most pre-draft mocks. Pats were probably happy to see him still available in round 5.
  27. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Agree. I'd like to see these guys knock Gorin off the 53, 'though I appreciate his contribution.
  28. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Obviously, it's fine to "hope" this, but you should really put it out of your head. Thomas has NEVER long-snapped in a game. Ever. Paxton is, quite simply, THE BEST LONG-SNAPPER in the NFL. It'll be nice to have emergency depth in the form of Mills and/or Thomas, but replacing Paxton with either is a pipe-dream, and a terribly risky one at that.
  29. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's a risk I'm willing to take. Heck, high school kids can long snap. It's not that difficult.
  30. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

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    It's not that we prefer inexperience. It is that Gorin has disappointed us ... so we hope to find better. It is a wish, more than a forecast.
    Two years ago, BB paid Brandon his contract salary, while he was on the p/s, rather than the p/s union scale.
    That was an important signal of confidence.
    But Coach requires continuous improvement. Has Gorin improved noticeably over the player he was then?

    Agree with your starters ... agree that Tucker makes the 53 ... and agree that Stevenson seems like a p/s-er.

    O'Callaghan, though, seems to me to be a classic IR-in-waiting.

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