Running back?

[PatsFanInVa]

I see Law Firm as a loss. He wasn't worth what he could get elsewhere by the dictates of the dismal science of Patsonomics. But he's a loss.

He could get short yardage and did a good job on the goalline, in addition to some more impressive runs. He was good enough (in combo w/Woodhead and [your name here]) to keep the defense thinking "yeah but it is theoretically possible they can run the ball..." And that's pretty much the whole of your responsibilities as a NE Patriots runningback.

That's what we want of RBs... until such time as the "calls for balance" of a fan board overwhelm what clearly is the Pats' philosophy about the position.

I kind of share the attitude here that the position is worth some additional emphasis, but it's not the priority in the Pats' minds, and never has been. Que sera sera. It's a matter of getting the most out of what you've got, and in the Brady era, I think that's just bound to be the passing game (and of course the defense, particularly in the '12 draft.)

 

[doesntmatter1]

Im excited about our rbs. i see the loss of bjge as a gain honestly. The Op said he could outrun addai but addai would easily burn bjge imho. I just feel that benny held us back and if the run is really working we will use it. like in 04 and 08. Even during the 07 aerial season i clearly remember sammy morris being consistently fed the ball until he was injured.

 

[BlueThunder]

Chomping at the bit to see what Vereen and Ridley bring to the running game. I have a feeling the fans will be pleasantly surprised at the Pats ground game this season.

 

[Ring 6]

I see Law Firm as a loss. He wasn't worth what he could get elsewhere by the dictates of the dismal science of Patsonomics. But he's a loss.

He could get short yardage and did a good job on the goalline, in addition to some more impressive runs. He was good enough (in combo w/Woodhead and [your name here]) to keep the defense thinking "yeah but it is theoretically possible they can run the ball..." And that's pretty much the whole of your responsibilities as a NE Patriots runningback.

That's what we want of RBs... until such time as the "calls for balance" of a fan board overwhelm what clearly is the Pats' philosophy about the position.

I kind of share the attitude here that the position is worth some additional emphasis, but it's not the priority in the Pats' minds, and never has been. Que sera sera. It's a matter of getting the most out of what you've got, and in the Brady era, I think that's just bound to be the passing game (and of course the defense, particularly in the '12 draft.)

A guy with 181 carries for 3.7 yards and not a single one longer than 18 is the exact opposite of what you are saying.
Defenses were praying for us to run, and those numbers are horrendous when you consider most came against a defense that was overplaying the pass.
He was a great story, as a big surprise, but he won't be missed.

 

[Ring 6]

Well, he did have 5 runs of 20 or more yards, which was 5 more than the rest of the team combined. . . .

Meaning Ridey, right?

 

[Reckedtrek]

I'm not worried one bit. If Woodhead, Vereen, Ridley AND Addai can't cut it, we'll get a FA or rely on the Pats secret weapon in the running game.

That would be one Mr. Dan Connolly.

 

[Mountain_Commando]

Woodhead - best RB on the Patriots in 2010, dinged up in 2011, healthy now

Ridley - Best RB on the Patriots in 2011, has a bit more wiggle than BJGE, 2 fumbles is not an acute case of fumblitis

Vereen - Injured most of 2011, should round out the top 3 RBs, his play is gravy

Addai - Veteran experience, although I have no idea why the Patriots signed him, unless it's about pass protection (I'd be happy to see a fullback as the RB4)

They're running backs, and they're going to get a chance to divvy up (with Brady) 400-450 carries. It shouldn't be a problem. Nobody worried about the Patriots running game with BJGE running the ball. If none of these guys get it done, it'll just be status quo. If Ridley/Vereen can show some legitimate skills, it'll be a huge upgrade over BJGE and a nice bonus for the offense.

This is a neat breakdown. I'm glad to see that most posters are optimistic, my own concerns are probably (hopefully) mere paranoia. I hope Ridley/Vereen can bring home the bacon.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Law Firm was a solid RB but imminently replaceable. Are we going to miss his
667 yards and 3.7 ypc that he gave us in 2011? I daresay that Ridley will easily surpass those totals as a starter in 2012. He already gave us 441 yards with a 5.1 ypc in 2011. Ridley's fumble issues are overrated imo. The only reason they are blown up is because they happened in back to back games, and BB didn't trust him in the playoffs. Well BB doesn't trust many rookies in the playoffs and for good reason.

If Ridley gets the bulk of the carries in 2012, I expect him to hit 1,000 yards and give us more of a gamebreaking presence in the run game. I still like Vereen's upside. Anything he gives us extra is gravy. Woodhead is a reliable 3rd down back when healthy. And we added some fullbacks, presumably for short yardage situaitons. I am guardedly optimistic about our running game in 2012 and ready to be amazed by our passing game. Go Pats!

 

[ausbacker]

Law Firm was a solid RB but imminently replaceable. Are we going to miss his
667 yards and 3.7 ypc that he gave us in 2011? I daresay that Ridley will easily surpass those totals as a starter in 2012. He already gave us 441 yards with a 5.1 ypc in 2011. Ridley's fumble issues are overrated imo. The only reason they are blown up is because they happened in back to back games, and BB didn't trust him in the playoffs. Well BB doesn't trust many rookies in the playoffs and for good reason.

If Ridley gets the bulk of the carries in 2012, I expect him to hit 1,000 yards and give us more of a gamebreaking presence in the run game. I still like Vereen's upside. Anything he gives us extra is gravy. Woodhead is a reliable 3rd down back when healthy. And we added some fullbacks, presumably for short yardage situaitons. I am guardedly optimistic about our running game in 2012 and ready to be amazed by our passing game. Go Pats!

I'm not sure what and I have no reasonable contribution for it but Vereen's potential excites me more than Ridley. The little bits of Vereen I've seen on the field, I liked a lot.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not sure what and I have no reasonable contribution for it but Vereen's potential excites me more than Ridley. The little bits of Vereen I've seen on the field, I liked a lot.

I'm with you. Ridley >> BJGE in my book, but Vereen offers another dimension entirely which could really complement our offense. I've been a fan of his for a long time, and I'm holding my breath that the kid pans out.

 

[ausbacker]

I'm with you. Ridley >> BJGE in my book, but Vereen offers another dimension entirely which could really complement our offense. I've been a fan of his for a long time, and I'm holding my breath that the kid pans out.

I'm an unabashed Green-Ellis lover mayo so you'll find it difficult trying to convince me that 2011 Ridley > 2011 Green-Ellis. I thought they were complimentary runners and the platoon worked well together. The issue for Green-Ellis was do you want consistency at a price or do you want home run hitting ability from the unknowns? This is the reason I was OK with Green-Ellis being allowed to walk (it's also why I was so high on acquiring Jonathan Stewart but hey, Brandon Lloyd was an OK substitute).

I'm excited about Vereen. If one of Vereen or Ridley goes on to become a feature back for the Patriots (preferably both) then look out NFL defenses.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm an unabashed Green-Ellis lover mayo so you'll find it difficult trying to convince me that 2011 Ridley > 2011 Green-Ellis. I thought they were complimentary runners and the platoon worked well together. The issue for Green-Ellis was do you want consistency at a price or do you want home run hitting ability from the unknowns? This is the reason I was OK with Green-Ellis being allowed to walk (it's also why I was so high on acquiring Jonathan Stewart but hey, Brandon Lloyd was an OK substitute).

I was not a huge Law Firm fan. I give him full credit for his work ethic, for getting the most out of his ability, for his consistency and team-first approach, and for not fumbling. It was hard not to be somewhat inspired by his determination and grit in making the most of himself. But he was a limited runner who was all too predictable and who didn't really complement the pass offense, so I was not sorry to see him move on. The 2011 Ridley was in my mind slightly less consistent but much more explosive than BJGE, and that was as a rookie coming off of a lockout with limited preparation time, so I'm fairly hopeful that Ridley's upside is truly much greater than Benny's.

I'm excited about Vereen. If one of Vereen or Ridley goes on to become a feature back for the Patriots (preferably both) then look out NFL defenses.

Absolutely. Imagine what having a Shady McCoy or Matt Forte kind of weapon in the backfield could do in addition to our existing offensive weapons. I would have been thrilled to pick up Jonathan Stewart, but the Panthers weren't dumb enough to put him on the trading block, and there would have been a long line even if they had.

 

[ausbacker]

I was not a huge Law Firm fan. I give him full credit for his work ethic, for getting the most out of his ability, for his consistency and team-first approach, and for not fumbling. It was hard not to be somewhat inspired by his determination and grit in making the most of himself. But he was a limited runner who was all too predictable and who didn't really complement the pass offense, so I was not sorry to see him move on. The 2011 Ridley was in my mind slightly less consistent but much more explosive than BJGE, and that was as a rookie coming off of a lockout with limited preparation time, so I'm fairly hopeful that Ridley's upside is truly much greater than Benny's.

Absolutely. Imagine what having a Shady McCoy or Matt Forte kind of weapon in the backfield could do in addition to our existing offensive weapons. I would have been thrilled to pick up Jonathan Stewart, but the Panthers weren't dumb enough to put him on the trading block, and there would have been a long line even if they had.

We're in agreement. Green-Ellis was virtually non-existent in the passing game for the Patriots either by design or ability. We've seen the carnage Woodhead creates with the dump offs or in the short to intermediate passing game. If Ridley or Vereen can grab the bull by those horns then I'm all for it!

As for upside arguments, you'll get no argument from me.

 

[patchick]

He could get short yardage and did a good job on the goalline, in addition to some more impressive runs. He was good enough (in combo w/Woodhead and [your name here]) to keep the defense thinking "yeah but it is theoretically possible they can run the ball..." And that's pretty much the whole of your responsibilities as a NE Patriots runningback.

Ah, there we disagree. I know you're semi-joking, but Kevin Faulk demonstrated for years how much more a NE Patriots running back can and should do.

BJGE averaged only 1 reception for every 20 carries. Even Corey Dillon averaged 1:14 and Antowain Smith 1:11. Nor was Green-Ellis a notable plus in pass protection. IMO, a Patriots feature back should be more of a factor in the passing game to keep the offense as unpredictable as possible.

I have some major irrational exuberance about this year's RB corps. I don't find myself yearning for more "experience" at all. I've had enough of the Fred Taylors and Sammy Morrises, and I have a pure gut feeling that the Ridley-Vereen-Woodhead combo is going to create some excitement.

 

[mayoclinic]

I have some major irrational exuberance about this year's RB corps. I don't find myself yearning for more "experience" at all. I've had enough of the Fred Taylors and Sammy Morrises, and I have a pure gut feeling that the Ridley-Vereen-Woodhead combo is going to create some excitement.

I share your exuberance. No one's expecting the Pats to switch from a pass-oriented team to a running one. But I can think of a lot of things that I'd like the ideal Pats RB to be able to do:

1. Present a legitimate threat to run the ball - and to break off a big play if not contained - to keep opposing defenses honest.

2. Set up play action.

3. Be used in screens and as a safety valve and potential receiving threat out of the backfield.

4. Block adequately in passing plays when not a primary target.

5. Reliably move the chains in short yardage situations (and score in goal line ones).

6. Not turn the ball over, and not produce many negative plays.

The Pats haven't really done all those things on a regular basis during the Belichick-Brady era. Kevin Faulk comes closest, but he was mainly a 3rd down back. If the current group can achieve most of those goals, the offense could really benefit.

 

[patsfan13]

I am pretty excited by the young crew. I think Vareen could show a element with a receiving threat out of the backfield we haven't seen in a long time because of the rest of the weapons on the field he will be 1 on 1 on a LB a lot of the time. Using the correct route combinations could leave him in space 1 on 1 with a LB.... this is a mismatch that McD will know how to take advantage of.

 

[Deus Irae]

1.) BJGE caught a total of 26 passes in his 4 seasons with the Patriots.

2.) Faulk's injuries (and game plan adjustments) limited him to 37,6 and 7 receptions in the past 3 seasons.

3.) In 2006, the top 3 RBs caught 80 passes. In 2007, they caught 57. In 2008, they caught 78. In 2009, they caught 70. In 2010, they caught 53. In 2011, they caught 34.

With a healthy Woodard, the (reported) versatility of Vereen, and the addition of Addai and/or a FB, a return to RBs catching 70-80 passes doesn't seem out of reach, and I think it would be a good way to force opponents to pay a bit more attention to the backs, which will help the rest of the receivers.

 

[supafly]

1.) BJGE caught a total of 26 passes in his 4 seasons with the Patriots.

2.) Faulk's injuries (and game plan adjustments) limited him to 37,6 and 7 receptions in the past 3 seasons.

3.) In 2006, the top 3 RBs caught 80 passes. In 2007, they caught 57. In 2008, they caught 78. In 2009, they caught 70. In 2010, they caught 53. In 2011, they caught 34.

With a healthy Woodard, the (reported) versatility of Vereen, and the addition of Addai and/or a FB, a return to RBs catching 70-80 passes doesn't seem out of reach, and I think it would be a good way to force opponents to pay a bit more attention to the backs, which will help the rest of the receivers.

Good post, Deus. The norm is anywhere from about 55-80 grabs by the backs, with last year showing a significant decline all the way down to a measly 34.

Not to take it off-topic too much, but the expectation of returning to the RB norm of 55-80 passes, along with the arrivals of Llyod and Gaffney AND the continued emergence of the TE sets could all have factored into the reasoning of being even more cautious than expected with the Welker situation.

I know we've all been down that road before with the projections and opinions etc, but seeing what the RB's usually produce just solidifies the thinking that they may have more justification in taking it cautiously than I originally gave them credit for, especially if a decline is expected (and I think that 'some' kind of decline is almost guaranteed after a career yr like that). It could be possible that they are greatly hoping for lessened demands after an additional year of aging, combined with 35 or so less catches and a somewhat reduced role in the offense.

They may be hoping for something more palatable and reasonable, and could be very well prepared to use the tag--in the thinking that it would at least buy them some time to come to a fair middle ground; hopefully without getting stuck actually having to pay that ridiculous amount. After all, if he wasn't going to budge from his 20 million or so guaranteed demands over 2 yrs, then all they really had to lose was the ability to spread the hit out over a longer period anyway, seeing as how their worst case scenario would have them paying the same amount that he wanted in the first place. Even though that is certainly an important perk in the process, it could be possible that they assumed themselves in enough of a positive situation cap wise that they were willing to gamble a bit for one more year and see what happens; thus knowing all the time that his role would likely be reduced and the offense would not be as dependant on 83 as it was last year.

Sorry to take a good thread off-topic, but seeing those RB numbers actually somehow makes me feel slightly more positive that there may be more of a plan involved than I expected. It may not be written in stone just yet.

Then again, maybe I'm just trying to find some reasonable justification for a weird situation and move by the team to make myself feel better, as that is certainly a possibility too.

 

[DarrylS]

Was a huge fan of BJGE and his story, always a soft spot for him and his game.

In the end, a guy such as BJGE with his very good and positive character, may be worth more to Cincinnatti than he would have been to the Patriots...

 

[mehackney]

I guess it is impossible for any team to not have a weak link and if ours is our lack of a stud running back so be it....that's why we have a team built around Brady on offense...I am much happier they adressed their defensive needs this off season than to have them not, and instead pick up a "stud" running back...having said this I still believe what they have will be enough (at running back) to complement their passing attack...it's going to be a great season once again...and personally I can't wait for it to get started!!!!!