Rumors of interest in Shawn Alexander for the Patriots

[RussFrancis]

Ive always loved Alexander's game. He's flat sucked the last 2 years, but foot and hand injuries didnt help. But with that said, the guy's no longer good enough to be a starter on very many teams, let alone the Pats. And as a backup RB, if he cant play special teams, he's not even going to be considered here. And he doesnt play special teams. So, basically he's not going to even be considered.

Personally, Id like to see the Pats bringing in a young back with one of those 3rd round picks to provide a little more help in the return game or just general special teams play. A playmaker like Ray Rice, Chris Johnson or Steve Slaton. This is a seriously deep RB draft, so there's gonna be some value still hanging around in the 3rd-4th round area. Its one of the reasons older guys like Shaun Alexander will have trouble finding work if they get cut and arent willing to play for a whole lot less.

But SA will never come here. He's not just looking for just a ring or a one-year deal. He'll probably restructure and stay in Seattle.

 

[RayClay]

You're assuming that Morris will be completely healthy and perform on the same level in 2008. I hope your correct, but at this point I wouldn't assume this to be the case, especially since we haven't heard anything regarding his current status.

Well, based on the injury, I'm not assuming he took more than a matter of weeks to recover.

Obviously, being on the Pats, one cannot assume he is not deceased at this point.

It's not a knee, it's a joint separation requiring a bone to heal. All indications were it was a judgment call that he was IRed at all.

It is an unusual injury, but recovery time seems to be the time it takes a broken bone to heal.

A blurb from an ESPN fantasy site:

News: Morris revealed Thursday that the injury that landed him on IR was a sternum clavicle separation, the Boston Herald reports.

Spin: "It's rare," Morris said of the sternum clavicle separation. "They didn't really have much precedent to base a recovery on. So they just made the decision it was going to take too long to rehab." That said, there's nothing to make us believe that Morris won't be fully recovered well in time for next season.

 

[signbabybrady]

Ive always loved Alexander's game. He's flat sucked the last 2 years, but foot and hand injuries didnt help. But with that said, the guy's no longer good enough to be a starter on very many teams, let alone the Pats. And as a backup RB, if he cant play special teams, he's not even going to be considered here. And he doesnt play special teams. So, basically he's not going to even be considered.

Personally, Id like to see the Pats bringing in a young back with one of those 3rd round picks to provide a little more help in the return game or just general special teams play. A playmaker like Ray Rice, Chris Johnson or Steve Slaton. This is a seriously deep RB draft, so there's gonna be some value still hanging around in the 3rd-4th round area. Its one of the reasons older guys like Shaun Alexander will have trouble finding work if they get cut and arent willing to play for a whole lot less.

But SA will never come here. He's not just looking for just a ring or a one-year deal. He'll probably restructure and stay in Seattle.

Shawn may not play ST but having a RB like him (if BB felt he's healed) would allow Maroney to play ST (KR). I remember Maroney's rookie year whenever he returned a kick the gillete faithful rose to their feet because he is an awsome KR.

I have concerns about Alexander too, but if he can come in and be 80% what he once was and allows Maroney to return kicks than this would be a good thing.

Personally I would rather McFadden.

 

[RussFrancis]

Shawn may not play ST but having a RB like him (if BB felt he's healed) would allow Maroney to play ST (KR). I remember Maroney's rookie year whenever he returned a kick the gillete faithful rose to their feet because he is an awsome KR.

I have concerns about Alexander too, but if he can come in and be 80% what he once was and allows Maroney to return kicks than this would be a good thing.

Personally I would rather McFadden.

Watching Maroney return kicks as a rookie was fun. He was exciting in the role, and made consistent plays. I think he was 2nd in the NFL that year. And he proved his worth. At this point though, he's a 3rd year STARTER. He's no longer backing up Dillon. He doesnt need to be out there on special teams. He only filled in last year when injuries to Hobbs forced it. But that's exactly my point. Rather than bringing in someone old and slower like SA to backup at RB and NOT play ST, they need to bring in another young RB to back up Maroney and give us the same kindof energy on kick or punt returns. But its not going to happen much with Maroney anymore. He's just far too valuable.

 

[satz]

Do you want cut morris for him?

we carry 4 backs and except 4th guy to be a key in spl teams and play TE,H-Back and blitz pickup guy which rules out evans. then we have faulk and i do not think he can replace him .so that leaves maroney and morris so i am thinking the above.Morris also plays ST.we have a good backup with eckel who is young and also a key of the ST group.

Morris was at the SB and is already reported to be training. why the hell do you cut him for a guy who has not run good in 2 yrs and does not give you the tough yards morris gives.

 

[signbabybrady]

Watching Maroney return kicks as a rookie was fun. He was exciting in the role, and made consistent plays. I think he was 2nd in the NFL that year. And he proved his worth. At this point though, he's a 3rd year STARTER. He's no longer backing up Dillon. He doesnt need to be out there on special teams. He only filled in last year when injuries to Hobbs forced it. But that's exactly my point. Rather than bringing in someone old and slower like SA to backup at RB and NOT play ST, they need to bring in another young RB to back up Maroney and give us the same kindof energy on kick or punt returns. But its not going to happen much with Maroney anymore. He's just far too valuable.

He is far to valueable because you don't have the talent behind him, if you had Alexander or McFadden(or Rookie X almost as good) than the risk reward might lean more in the reward category.

 

[RussFrancis]

He is far to valueable because you don't have the talent behind him, if you had Alexander or McFadden(or Rookie X almost as good) than the risk reward might lean more in the reward category.

Im not gonna be able to come up with a very long list of starting RBs in the NFL also moonlighting as return specialists. And almost every one of them could. But there's a very good reason they all dont. The rewards will never match the risk once the guy gets injured, considering the average return guy scores 1TD per season. And as good as Maroney was in '06 returning kicks, he didnt score a single TD. That's a risk just not worth taking.

But here are some basic #s just to emphasize the point. In '06, Maroney averaged 28.0yds/ret. on 28 returns with 0TDs and a long return of 77yds. In '07, Ellis Hobbs averaged 26.0yds/ret. on 35 returns with 1TD and a long return of 108yds. So, Maroney averaged 2yds more. Not much. And again, no TDs. Is that really worth risking your starting RB's health? The funny thing about this discussion is that in '06, Hobbs LED all NFL return guys with a 36.0 avg on 10 returns with a TD. Again, another TD from Hobbs. And why again do we want to get Maroney back there returning kickoffs?

 

[signbabybrady]

Im not gonna be able to come up with a very long list of starting RBs in the NFL also moonlighting as return specialists. And almost every one of them could. But there's a very good reason they all dont. The rewards will never match the risk once the guy gets injured, considering the average return guy scores 1TD per season. And as good as Maroney was in '06 returning kicks, he didnt score a single TD. That's a risk just not worth taking.

But here are some basic #s just to emphasize the point. In '06, Maroney averaged 28.0yds/ret. on 28 returns with 0TDs and a long return of 77yds. In '07, Ellis Hobbs averaged 26.0yds/ret. on 35 returns with 1TD and a long return of 108yds. So, Maroney averaged 2yds more. Not much. And again, no TDs. Is that really worth risking your starting RB's health? The funny thing about this discussion is that in '06, Hobbs LED all NFL return guys with a 36.0 avg on 10 returns with a TD. Again, another TD from Hobbs. And why again do we want to get Maroney back there returning kickoffs?

The same arguments would apply to having a starting CB returning kicks. an average starting position of two yards better is a pretty big deal. If you can say your team will be 2 yards closer to scoring on average just by one special teams play than you are doing pretty good. Think if you could had 2 yards on average to any one play on wouldn't you do it.

 

[jbb9s]

Where did NE select Asante Samuel, Ellis Hobbs, and James Sanders? Answer : 4th round, 3rd round, and 4th round. .

I heard a rumor that the Falcons, Bears and Dolphins aren't going to address their QB needs on day 1. They are just planning on grabbing the next future 3 time super bowl winner in the 190s somewhere.

 

[RussFrancis]

The same arguments would apply to having a starting CB returning kicks. an average starting position of two yards better is a pretty big deal. If you can say your team will be 2 yards closer to scoring on average just by one special teams play than you are doing pretty good. Think if you could had 2 yards on average to any one play on wouldn't you do it.

You are sortof kidding here, right? God, I hope so. 2 extra yards 3 or 4 times a game, and you'd risk your starting back for that? Im not sure if Im laughing with you or at you right now.

 

[signbabybrady]

You are sortof kidding here, right? God, I hope so. 2 extra yards 3 or 4 times a game, and you'd risk your starting back for that? Im not sure if Im laughing with you or at you right now.

no I wouldn't risk my starting running back, but I would risk a running back who is part of a tandem where both guys are pretty close in skill level. If it is such a risky proposition than why do half the starters play STs? Why did you risk using him his rookie year? if it is that funny to you to use him as a returner because of the risk than why would they risk him before he even had a chanceto develope. I think you are under valuing the value of a cuople yards of field position.

 

[RussFrancis]

no I wouldn't risk my starting running back, but I would risk a running back who is part of a tandem where both guys are pretty close in skill level. If it is such a risky proposition than why do half the starters play STs? Why did you risk using him his rookie year? if it is that funny to you to use him as a returner because of the risk than why would they risk him before he even had a chanceto develope. I think you are under valuing the value of a cuople yards of field position.

No. I think youre forgetting how in the 2nd half of the '06 AFCC game against the Colts, we didnt have a healthy RB to use in that game, partly because Maroney was returning kicks all year. Do you recall that miserable feeling? No running game? No rushing yardage? That's exactly why you dont use a starting RB on special teams. Because all of those extra 2 yds Maroney might have accounted for on kickoffs dont mean alot if you cant use the guy when it really matters.

Maroney's the lead back on this team without question at this point. What he did the past several games of the season including the playoffs assured him of that status. Again, I loved him returning kicks because he was good at it. His value has just evolved.

 

[signbabybrady]

Maroney's the lead back on this team without question at this point. What he did the past several games of the season including the playoffs assured him of that status. Again, I loved him returning kicks because he was good at it. His value has just evolved.

You just reiterated your initial point and ignored my questions.

If it is such a risky proposition than why did he do it before? If you don't want to risk him now why risk him when he was a rook? or how bout after those several games you speak of where he secured being the lead back for next year. Why did he than return kicks in the playoffs and SB?

Your point is that it is too risky for him to return but he has done at points in each of his seasons.

You also seem to ignore the fact that the only way I am using Maroney to return kicks is if I trust his back up to be able to carry the load.

 

[RussFrancis]

You just reiterated your initial point and ignored my questions.

If it is such a risky proposition than why did he do it before? If you don't want to risk him now why risk him when he was a rook? or how bout after those several games you speak of where he secured being the lead back for next year. Why did he than return kicks in the playoffs and SB?

Your point is that it is too risky for him to return but he has done at points in each of his seasons.

You also seem to ignore the fact that the only way I am using Maroney to return kicks is if I trust his back up to be able to carry the load.

Dude, he was a ROOKIE. Rookies have to prove themselves, regardless of position. Adrian Peterson of all people had 16 kickoff returns this past season for the Vikings. What do you think the chances are he does that next year? Zero. Absolutely zero. As for all of these significant RBs that run back kicks, Maurice-Jones Drew is the only non-rookie doing a good job that even comes to mind. The young kid for the Jets is good, Leon Washington, but clearly a role player. Just the kind of young guy you want returning kicks. Either a good young back, DB or WR, or a ROOKIE. Someone who needs to earn some respect. But you just dont keep throwing out your starting RB to return punts or kicks in the NFL. It doesnt happen.

But here's the link to the top returners from '07. Tell me how many of those guys youve even heard of.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Find

 

[signbabybrady]

Dude, he was a ROOKIE. Rookies have to prove themselves, regardless of position. Adrian Peterson of all people had 16 kickoff returns this past season for the Vikings. What do you think the chances are he does that next year? Zero. Absolutely zero. As for all of these significant RBs that run back kicks, Maurice-Jones Drew is the only non-rookie doing a good job that even comes to mind. The young kid for the Jets is good, Leon Washington, but clearly a role player. Just the kind of young guy you want returning kicks. Either a good young back, DB or WR, or a ROOKIE. Someone who needs to earn some respect. But you just dont keep throwing out your starting RB to return punts or kicks in the NFL. It doesnt happen.

But here's the link to the top returners from '07. Tell me how many of those guys youve even heard of.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Find

Take a look at what you said right there, I bolded it for you. I would say Maroney is a good young back how bout you? You are getting caught up in the fact that he is the starter, I have said it a few times the only way I would do this is if he is splitting time with another RB that I trust to carry the ball 20-25 times a game if the injury happened.

Your not thinking the patriot way. The way you are thinking really deminishes STs and ignores the fact that starters are used all over the place on STs.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Sammy Maroney will be fine...

If we're going running back, we should be going after McFadden in the draft, but I have even cooled off my earlier lust for that pick.

We need linebackers and cornerbacks!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RussFrancis]

Take a look at what you said right there, I bolded it for you. I would say Maroney is a good young back how bout you? You are getting caught up in the fact that he is the starter, I have said it a few times the only way I would do this is if he is splitting time with another RB that I trust to carry the ball 20-25 times a game if the injury happened.

Your not thinking the patriot way. The way you are thinking really deminishes STs and ignores the fact that starters are used all over the place on STs.

Just click the link, scoll down that list of the NFL's leader in kickoff return yards. And you give me the names who are either their team's #1 or 2 RB. When Maroney returned kicks in the playoffs, it was because Hobbs was injured and it was crunch time. They werent saving him for anything at that point. Why are you going down this road? Youre defying logic of every single Head Coach in the NFL, including our own. Belichick had Maroney back there in the playoffs because IT WAS THE PLAYOFFS. at that point, youre not saving the guy for anything. youre either winning or youre going home. And Im not gonna start comparing Laurence Maroney to Leon Washington. Dont twist my words here. You know what I meant. This debate is really quite pointless.

 

[signbabybrady]

Just click the link, scoll down that list of the NFL's leader in kickoff return yards. And you give me the names who are either their team's #1 or 2 RB. When Maroney returned kicks in the playoffs, it was because Hobbs was injured and it was crunch time. They werent saving him for anything at that point. Why are you going down this road? Youre defying logic of every single Head Coach in the NFL, including our own. Belichick had Maroney back there in the playoffs because IT WAS THE PLAYOFFS. at that point, youre not saving the guy for anything. youre either winning or youre going home. And Im not gonna start comparing Laurence Maroney to Leon Washington. Dont twist my words here. You know what I meant. This debate is really quite pointless.

You are twisting what I am saying as well. Plus I think you are putting Maroney on this LT Larry Johnson plain. All I am saying is that Maroney is a really good KR and if Bringing in a Shawn Alexander or drafting McFadden allows him to return kicks than it is a bonus. The argument started with you saying you didn't want Alexander because he doesn't play STs and all I was saying was that he would allow Maroney to do it so it would be mute.

for like the fifth time I am not going to risk him if he is the only guy who can be the lead back.

And as for defying logic of every NFL coach the logic you speak of I think more goes to the fact that CBs and WR tend to be better kick returners because there is more space involved. Plenty of head coaches have risked great NFL players on STs Deion Sanders anyone.

 

[RussFrancis]

You are twisting what I am saying as well. Plus I think you are putting Maroney on this LT Larry Johnson plain. All I am saying is that Maroney is a really good KR and if Bringing in a Shawn Alexander or drafting McFadden allows him to return kicks than it is a bonus. The argument started with you saying you didn't want Alexander because he doesn't play STs and all I was saying was that he would allow Maroney to do it so it would be mute.

for like the fifth time I am not going to risk him if he is the only guy who can be the lead back.

And as for defying logic of every NFL coach the logic you speak of I think more goes to the fact that CBs and WR tend to be better kick returners because there is more space involved. Plenty of head coaches have risked great NFL players on STs Deion Sanders anyone.

There was ONE lead back last year returning kicks. Adrian Peterson. And I dont even know when he returned those kicks. It was likely earlier in the season before he became clearly their best runner. Maroney did not have a single return last year in the regular season.

Its not a matter of bringing in some old guy like SA to backup Maroney and take over if LM gets hurt playing special teams. Because trust me, at this point, you dont want SA carrying the ball on offense instead of Maroney. I realize he's had a tremendous career, but those times are gone. An offense is a complex thing. You bring in a vet like Alexander or a rookie like McFadden, who knows, you may even be bringing in back who technically runs better with the ball as strictly a pure runner of the football. But what you lose are the chemistry of Maroney playing in and learning and at this point understanding this offense.

But all of this for those TWO YARDS per touch? How bout those 2TDs that Hobbs had? I didnt see you mention that at all, or the stellar job Hobbs himself did. Youve been making this case for 2 measley yards, but if you honestly think that's making or breaking teams, specifically a team that won 18 consecutive games, I hate to be the master of the obvious here, but that's just a little too much thought for its own good.

 

[Mogamedogz]

SA = Old and Slow. :bricks: