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Rules question

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The rule is:

    "No attacks that stereotype all people of a race, ethnicity, religion, gender, national origin, sexual orientation, or who are serving in the US military. For example, if Widgets were a race, it would be against the rules to call all Widgets ugly, selfish, or cheap."

    At this time, it's clear to me that we have in this forum some real problems with racism and homophobia, and lately a couple people have taken these matters to new extremes.

    Now, we have done our best to avoid censorship in this forum, but we must keep in mind that the rules were created to protect Patsfans.Com. This forum exists because Ian is kind enough to allow it, but we can't forget that his website is a family site that draws people of all backgrounds. We also have to remember that this forum was once very nearly closed because some of the posts were so upsetting to some people that they left Patsfans.Com.

    If I am to follow the rules more strictly, it will be subjective and, at this juncture, more likely to alienate conservatives than liberals.

    I am honestly not sure how to approach this issue.
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hi,
    Would it be all right to call Widgets "ugly, selfish, or cheap." if They Were "ugly selfish and cheap"
    I can't comment any further I have been trying my best to be "nice".
    Yours Truly
    Harry
    Maine
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, because those are all subjective terms.

    You've done a great job at being nice.
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My vote is for letter of the law.. pure and simple coupled with the need for consistency between you and FTW...
  5. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    If some are going to extremes then you should call them out on it so that you don't lump them into a couple of other widget groups, namely conservatives and liberals. If I have a pet pieve here on this board it is that I sometimes feel stereotyped as a homophobe or a racist because I belong to the conservative widget group. The very notion that you will alienate conservative more than liberals by following the "stereotype rule" more strictly says to me that you are also guilty of stereotyping.
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The hypocrite returns.

    How about if YOU quit referring to Ahmadinejad's government as "The Conservatives", which, while technically correct, isn't remotely close to our Conservatives and you're doing it on purpose to push buttons.

    Cut it out or quit complaining about others' namecalling. You are among the biggest offenders in grouping people together and labelling them.
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's rare that liberals stereotype against race, gender, etc. The only example I can think of would be the attacks on Fog's religion, but even those rarely have stereotyped. On the right, we've allowed BF's view that businesses should have the right to discriminate based on race and Fog's Unification Church view that homosexuality is an abomination. But, now we have someone argue that homosexuals are perverts, which is quite offensive. And we have someone who I think believes that you can tell a person's criminality by the color of their skin. I have never thought of you as a racist or homophobe.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For goodness stake, this a political forum and we certainly allow stereotyping of of liberals, conservatives, righties, lefties, Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, and so on. If we did not, Harry Boy would have been booted from this forum a long time ago.
  9. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Rookie

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    I'm hearing you on this, but I think the mod is just saying that at this point, more of the posts in question seem to be coming from the conservative widget group.
    Of course, that could change at any point.
    I'll say again though, that I feel your pain.
    I'm with the liberal widget group, and I feel sometimes that I'm lumped in with certain factions as well.
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Not when it's bullsh!t - or is to any correct thinking person anyway. The fact that a minority can't be legitimately criticized without the speaker being called racist is a far bigger problem both here and in society.
  11. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    if you can't alienate people evenly, then you should excuse yourself from the position as moderator
  12. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    calling anyone 'stupid, ignorant, idiotic, retarded' will gladly be accepted
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If that's the measure you use, then I do pretty well.
  14. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    I have no problem with you removing personal attacks.........and I believe you exhibit the best board behavior here, but I think the board is fine the way it is.........when discussing politics, you will always have ruffled feathers........
  15. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    It's refreshing for someone to finally hear me on this point. Welcome aboard. Up till you it's been almost impossible for anyone liberal to acknowlege this.
  16. State

    State Rookie

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    #70 Jersey

    Patters, it helps to give examples.

    For example, is one's bringing to everybody's attention a BBC article that indicates that 1/4 of South African men have engaged in rape by definition a violation of the rules? How so? It's merely a datum that reported in a news source you would never deem as unacceptable.

    What standard are you using? If the BBC reports on an ethnic group in way you find demeaning, presumably you're employing liberal criteria, aren't you engaging in censorship? Big Brother flowery socio-babble I think you are prone to using.

    Another example would be crime. There are reputable statistics--the FBI crime stats, for example--which almost seem a bigot concocted the numbers. I know you don't like seeing them, but I think you ought to bite your tongue until you can argue coherently, with facts, data, and so on. Nicholas Stix: The Color of Crime

    A lot of what liberals do is attack conservatives. Here's an example: Howard Dean, the former head of the Democratic National Committee, said in 2005 on national television, "in contradistinction" to Republicans, Democrats care if children go to bed hungry at night. Wow. Sounds demeaning to me.

    He is saying Republicans don't care if children are going to bed hungry. Get it? [How] much more demeaning can one get?

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/12/247075-liberals-hate-better.html

    HT: The Cagle Post -- Column -- Dennis Prager -- Why Democrats Will Smear Any Conservative Court Nominee
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have no objection to that BBC article.

    You have pretty much acknowledged that you believe black people are worse than white people. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) I see it as issues of poverty, education, employment, etc. Your view seems to be based on race, something you haven't disputed when I've asked.

    We are a political forum, so the stereotyping of a political group is acceptable and not against the rules.
  18. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The more I read and the more I observe, there seems to be a general disregard for the basic rules of name calling and overall respect.. when you end a thread with you are a f..ing moron.. it goes downhill from here.

    The rules need to be enforced evenly on both sides, we have a very part time rightie mod who comes on board once a month and deals a heavy hand to all things left.. and it seems because you shoulder most of it, you do so with reluctance and seem to be afraid of an appearance of impropriety.

    You have to start with the basics, more and more am seeing that people respond with an attack on the poster rather than adding to the conversation.. when that happens it hits the shytter real quick..

    If there is not a basic sense of decorum and respect, Ian will shut this down fairly quickly as he has threatened to do it before.. some of the stuff posted lately is a lot over the edge and it needs regulation.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  19. State

    State Rookie

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    #70 Jersey

    But here's what you said about my bringing it up and then mocking your pointless self-described "analogy" of the NAZIs:
    Excuse me, but that seems to be an objection. Furthermore, you're attacking my motivation, which is not a valid argument.
    Again, you need to provide examples, not make a generalization based on an amorphous opinion. It's not fair to me.

    The middle excerpt is from this thread: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/12/247291-um-wow.html

    You make the classic liberal error that you assume if someone brings up interesting sociological data that could be used in a negative light it must have been intended that way. But it may be simply for a political discussion.

    Let me remind you also that the First Amendment is there to protect speech you find offensive. It's not there to protect popular or anodyne sentiments; rather, it protects what the majority may find unacceptable.

    That's what makes this country great.

    Until I make generalizations not based on data, you have no beef with me. It's with the data you have an issue with.

    Not my problem, but yours, I'm afraid.
  20. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey


    You have pretty much acknowledged that you believe conservative people are worse than liberal people. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009

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