Welcome to PatsFans.com

Rules of the Political Forum

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +302 / 3 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Mine can linger even in a stiff breeze. I'd probably be a harsh mod as well and I'm already hated by some.
     
  2. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ratings:
    +362 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    Yuppers...

    Im sure im hated too but the concept of hating someone for what they share on an internet subforum is about 12 steps below my pay grade.

    As I said a week or so ago, this forum brings out the best in some people. Frankly i feel sad for some of our regulars.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,006
    Likes Received:
    322
    Ratings:
    +597 / 24 / -19

    It's Ian's call. I've proposed a new moderator, so it will happen soon, but perhaps it's delayed for a little while because Ian's still dealing with the new forum software.

    As I've said many times before, start a thread proposing a new rule. The rule has to be reasonably enforceable and not too subjective. For instance, if we had a rule that said, "No generalizing about political viewpoints," I could see all kinds of complications arising. For instance, if someone calls liberals socialists, some might take offense, others might not. If one says that conservatives have outmoded ideas from another time, would that qualify as a violation? If one implies that conservatives are racist or that liberals want to take your money and give it to the lazy, should the moderator interpret that implication? If someone genuinely believes that the Republican Party's policies are bigoted, should they be denied the right to express that belief? If one genuinely beliefs that the Democratic Party is racist and gives away "free stuff" just to get votes, should they be denied the right to express that belief? Moderators should moderate by applying the rules, not their own judgments (with some exceptions of course). Obviously, I have never favored much censorship. I thought Icy did a good job with more rigorous moderation, but it was demanding a lot more of his time than perhaps he was willing to give.

    And, be realistic, all the forums are mostly not moderated -- it's not like we have a work schedule here. I'm on board when I'm at my computer, but even then I often am busy doing other things so rarely read threads in real time.
     
  4. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +302 / 3 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I proposed a rule that if somebody calls a group of people say progressives and then calls them worse than a hate group like the WBC they should get banished for at least a month.

    Who's the new mod?
     
  5. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ratings:
    +362 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    It isnt about posts generalizing and people taking offense Patters. Anyone who gets in a huff over that needs to put their big boy/girl pants on.

    Its about the general lack of discussion and debate thats the issue. I could pull multiple threads right now that are either an echo chamber of some kind or a dick measuring contest on who can be the bigger troll.

    As for your closing line...hogwash. I post at multiple forums, ironically most are sports themed and mods modding is a pretty normal thing....you just have to have the correct staff levels to do it.

    The Bruins board I frequent has 6 mods just for the Bruins Subforum....not to mention the other 10 "Global Mods"
     
  6. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,802
    Likes Received:
    569
    Ratings:
    +1,506 / 1 / -1

    #54 Jersey

    I think that's the balance about being a mod here. Chances are that if policed by the letter of the law (or without any leeway), this forum would lose about 2/3 of its posters, and I could see this forum being something more like the religious forum. Relatively dead.

    Now, there could be merit to a temporary vacuum, washing out empty partisans and mudlsingers, as long as someone worthwhile came in here to fill it.

    The older model had two mods; one left and one right, to ensure that there wasn't too much policing of one side or the other. There is a rise in a "third way" here, and I wondered if there needed to be a third mod to represent/protect that group, but when I think of it, the "third way" types don't tend to attract a lot of negative attention or incite too many problems.

    I'm not really making a point here, just opining really.
     
  7. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ratings:
    +362 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    This place would be much better without the mud slingers. Mud slinging isnt discussion....maybe we should create a mudslinging subforum....

    Who have we lost as regulars in the last year alone? Wista, Icy, HD, happy, chico (for a period of time), titus/PC, wolfpack, hell even shmessy doesnt come down here much anymore and thats just off the top of my head.

    Obviously each of them left for their own reasons and yes anyone can be guilty of mudslinging from time to time....but when that is all your bring to this place id argue we are better off without it.
     
  8. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +302 / 3 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    When pressed to defend a point it's the only bullet some of the loudest posters have. There are certain people here who will never answer a question directly and when really push they pull out the typical liberal\conservative card like clockwork or worse to derail a thread with promise.

    There are a few posters right now who are so combative and unable to talk rationally with starting the name calling I tend to leave the thread when they arrive. The civility rules for this forum are pretty much a joke.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ratings:
    +362 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    Exactly....

    My rule proposal right now would be....get rid of the rules.

    Rules that arent enforced arent rules....so lets give up the charade.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,802
    Likes Received:
    569
    Ratings:
    +1,506 / 1 / -1

    #54 Jersey

    The problem comes in identifying mudlslingers. One poster's mudslinger is another poster's advocate. I know such a grey area is unfortunate, but it's reflective of the politics we're discussing. For example, Titus/PC and I had no love lost for one another, but he was very well liked in many corners here.

    I would definitely relish having civil and intelligent discussions as the dominant feature here. But one thing I have noticed is that some of the most interesting threads are posted by habitual mudlsingers or involve some sort of incitement to bicker and argue. I think the key is that instead of having the bickerers and arguers take over, hijack a dumb thread by having a few people discuss the matter intelligently and with respect. Perhaps if we had more of that and made the mudslinging types the minority, it would be easier for mods to weed out nonsense without sacrificing the "vibrancy" of the board.

    A very hard approach could work, but runs the risk of turning this into a dead board. I think lasting changes will come from below, not from on top.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,802
    Likes Received:
    569
    Ratings:
    +1,506 / 1 / -1

    #54 Jersey

    All that said, this is, by far, one of the more tame political boards I've seen. It's not that bad here, really.
     
  12. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ratings:
    +362 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    Maybe its just the nature of politics in this country presently.

    Idiocracy coupled with internet anonymity = what we get here.

    Alternatively maybe what I should look for is a true PoFo and not a PoFo on a football board.....I guess its possible Im the issue.
     
  13. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +302 / 3 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    The problem is all it takes is one post that says typical of the other side and the people who would be civil and discuss just the topic get dragged into it. A topic that shouldn't even be political like the Malaysia flight will somehow dissolve into your side sucks posts.
     
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,006
    Likes Received:
    322
    Ratings:
    +597 / 24 / -19

    There are often long periods of time (hours) when different forums have no moderators. A smaller forum is likely to have that problem even more. At most we've had three moderators here, which I am all for (in fact, I wanted Icy in addition to PF13 at the time). Right now, I am the only active moderator. I have proposed to Ian someone as a new moderator, and Ian will discuss it with him hopefully in the next few days. I will follow up.

    People participate in this forum for different reasons. I'm with you Drewski; I enjoy a good debate. I like reading a good post, doing some online reading, and learning something new. For instance, in the course of arguing with Bob, I did some research and learned that the Bill of Rights only started applying to the States in 1925. I had no idea. It's something I plan on reading more about.

    But, I'm not going to be an elitist! Other people want to argue from the heart and express their frustration with the political system and various perceived injustices. Should we have a requirement that you must be a college graduate to participate in this forum? Then maybe we would have more people of the "caliber" that you appear to be looking for. But, I find a good mix significant in that it really represents the American people and the challenges faced by all political sides.

    I think three moderators makes sense for a lot of reasons. Sometimes one of us is just too busy with other things to moderate, and frankly I have always found that a conservative poster is more likely to work with a conservative moderator than with me (and vice versa of course).

    We have always lost and gained people. We have a number of new people right now. But, again, I want to moderate according to the rules of the forum. How would a no mudslinging rule work?

    Take these threads: Summarization of Obama's Screwups, Yet Another Racist Republican, Pant Suit and the Indian, Obama Lie of the Day, Progressives Don't Grasp the Constitution. All of those titles are mudslinging in some respect. From your point of view, would you close all those threads? Or should the moderator carefully read through all 150 or so posts and weed out each one that I think is inappropriate. What are you suggesting?
     
  15. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,802
    Likes Received:
    569
    Ratings:
    +1,506 / 1 / -1

    #54 Jersey

    Well, let's say you're more a fan of longer messages that really get into the nitty gritty of topics and avoids all possible attacks and snark; a more academic and high brow discussion of the topic, if you will. I think you are correct that you shouldn't expect to find that here. I, myself, tend to participate on LinkedIn discussion boards. I am a member of various foreign policy groups there, and we have great discussions without much in the way of insults. After all, that is on your professional profile.

    I come here and participate in the more interesting discussions and maybe help inform some and learn from others.

    That's true. I guess, for my part, I just tend to ignore those types. Then again, I rarely get targeted personally, and when I do, I respond. I can't blame you there. But on this forum, people habitually equivocate my belief systems with all kinds of nonsense. It's the product of a small and insecure mind.
     
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,006
    Likes Received:
    322
    Ratings:
    +597 / 24 / -19

    One thought that I might be willing to try. We could try having a sort of op moderated thread. The title, I think, would have to include the words "OP moderated," which would mean the OP could request of one of the moderators that we delete all posts that OP considered inappropriate, with a turnaround time of hopefully under 24 hours. I've thought about something like this in the past, and maybe one you can come up with a way to improve on this idea. I would be willing to give it a try on a test basis just as an experiment. The risk, of course would be, if someone wanted an op moderated thread and chose to delete substantive content rather than mudslinging content!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    41,746
    Likes Received:
    279
    Ratings:
    +1,152 / 5 / -10

    I am........
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +302 / 3 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    ......inmates running the asylum.....
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    41,746
    Likes Received:
    279
    Ratings:
    +1,152 / 5 / -10

    THIS THREAD IS CLOSED
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,035
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +302 / 3 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    General Macarthur saluted you for a reason.
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>