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Rough night for Hobbs?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BradyManny, Nov 26, 2007.

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  1. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I'm curious what others thought about Hobbs' play last nite. At times this season, it seems like he's really giving the wideouts too big a cushion and isn't able to close in time. Every big play (15+ yards) seems to be in his direction. Is he not getting help over the top?

    Wasn't long ago I thought Hobbs might be superior to Asante simply in coverage, save for their big play abilities - but hasn't shown to be the case this season.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  2. hwc

    hwc Rookie

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    The Patriots DBs have it pounded into them to keep the play in front of them no matter what. If a DB gives up a reception in front of him, the defense lives to play another down. Allow a reception behind the DB and it's seven points. This is the foundation of the Belichick defensive philosophy.

    Hobbs gets passes thrown to him because opposing offenses are clearly throwing away from Asante. It's been that way all year.
  3. CTPatsFan

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    Thought he got beat like a rented mule. Coverage up the middle was non-existent.
  4. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    more like rough SEASON for hobbs...

    i dont know if the staff is telling him to not get beat deep, cuz he is giving his recievers so much room, its ridiculous
  5. cblesz

    cblesz Rookie

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    Hobbs is the weak link. He is ALWAYS getting beat deep. No idea why as he plays freaking ten yards off the line...
  6. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    hard to tell what part of the system was breaking down -- there was no inside help to speak of.

    that said hobbs is providing a HUGE cushion, and is not that quick to break on the ball (like asante). he is looking like a very average CB, worse than last year. at least he can run in the track meet part of the job desription...
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Other than this being 100% wrong, nice post.
  8. screamingPatsFan

    screamingPatsFan Rookie

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    I agree with last post but i still think the secondary had a very bad night.
    90% of the big plays were thrown Hobbs' way and in the middle.
    It has been like this in almost every game. The difference is the Pats Offense pounded 10 other teams and didn't give the opposition enough time to get the ball or gain momentum.

    It is Ok to not allow widereceivers to get behind the DB, but as we witnessed last night, couple big plays like that and Eagles were in the endzone.

    I think the only reason Philly gave a good fight is because they have an outstanding O-line. But again i keep wondering, is it our D-line that didn't bring their A-game last??

    Here are some play-by-play cuts to support my argument:
    ** 2-12-PHI 42 (12:24) 14-A.Feeley pass short left to 86-R.Brown to NE 47 for 11 yards (27-E.Hobbs, 36-J.Sanders) [50-M.Vrabel].

    ** 3-7-NE 39 (10:36) (Shotgun) 14-A.Feeley pass short middle to 83-G.Lewis to NE 24 for 15 yards (32-R.Baker).

    ** (7:07) 14-A.Feeley pass short right to 86-R.Brown pushed ob at NE 1 for 9 yards (21-R.Gay).

    Feeley had Brady-like time to scan the field for open W/R's
    I don't know if BB didn't feel like blitzing but i didn't really see in real penetration behind the line of scrimmage.

    You gotta give it to Philly. Pats will have the same problem if they play against a good O-line, decent QB and receivers because to be honest ... i don't have much confidence in the secondary.

    I am not whining just because they didn't drop another 45 or 50 on them but i have seen signs in the past 10 games indicating this team can easily allow points..
  9. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I agree. Hobbs has had a rough season. I still have some faith in him, but his coverage all year has seemed far too loose.
  10. cblesz

    cblesz Rookie

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    How so? He either gets beat or gets called for PI...
  11. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    and bad PI calls are his fault, when he has perfect coverage? No one on this team has consistently gotten beat deep this year. We are struggling with the intermediate routes and stuff over the middle.
  12. PrairiePat

    PrairiePat Rookie

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    Watching Eddie Jackson in there as his replacement made Hobbs look like an All-Pro in comparison...
  13. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Right, it is hard to tell what part was the system and what part was Hobbs. I'm certainly not qualified to tell you what kind of coverage the Pats are in for a given play from watching the TV broadcast, it's a pretty difficult thing to do.
  14. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Few opinions and notes regarding the secondary play last night:

    Hobbs did give up some receptions he shouldn't have last night, and hopefully he'll work on that. He was injured during part of the game, but came back and didn't seem to be effected by the injury. Hopefully it won't be anything that bothers him for these upcoming games as I think he's more important to the secondary than some might realize. Hobbs had a good game in the KR department though.

    The entire Secondary had mements of laps, with Samuel obviously having the best game out of the bunch but even Asante gave up a 20+ yard reception.

    If we're going to talk about the CB's, I think Randall Gay had a worse game than Ellis. Seriously, On the two TD's Randall gave up he had bad position, and just let the receiver get inside of him. I believe it was on the second TD he gave up, where the receiver pretty much got right inside of Gay without any effort, and Gay's attempt at coverage was horrid. Hopefully BB will tear him a new one, and Randall comes with better focus from here on out.

    Eddie Jackson had some instances of decent coverage, and on some other plays his coverage could be described as bad. The TD sticks out as coverage that could have been better, but he almost saved the TD with his attempt to swat the ball out of the receivers hands. Obviously that didn't work out as the receiver held on to the catch, but at least he had a chance to knock it out, which is more than I can say for Randall's coverage on those two TD's. You've also got to think about the fact that Eddie's seen a small amount of play since that ACL and he was thrown into a larger role than expected during parts of the game.

    Sanders had an INT and made another nice play in pass coverage, but he also gave up some receptions.

    The cushion that you've noticed is scheme related, not Ellis Hobbs related.
    It seems like on most plays both Samuel and Hobbs are lined up 8-10 yards off the LOS, which I can't completely understand. Their not wanting to give up the big play is understandable, but it's not like Hobbs and Samuel are slow and without recovery speed. I don't know, maybe I'm just one of those guys who want's to see the CB's up on the LOS every once and awhile bumping the WR (within five yards).

    I also couldn't understand why the Patriots didn't make their adjustments faster. We're talking about a BB coached defense, so for parts of the game I was scratching my head trying to figure out why the adjustments hadn't been made, yet. It was almost like they decided to stick with the game plan on defense, even though it obviously wasn't working.

    Remember the Rams in 2001? Remember seeing BB on the sidelines stressing "Slants and Incuts! That's the game!"? Were they stressing this on the sidelines last night? I ask because I really can't understand why they continued to let the Eagles burn them with routes they've seen in the past.

    That game was a prime example of why the Patriots need to get Meriweather developed for next season.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  15. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Thank you, Hobbs has been getting beat on short routes, and to the inside, but he hasn't been getting beat deep all season. That's an asinine statement to make.
  16. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Rookie

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    I called Hobbs "the weak link" all year last year. I think he's played better this year, and with how he played Harrison in last year's AFCCG, I'm sticking with him. Asante is clearly superior to him, but Hobbs is a solid #2 guy. Our problem right now is that the D is built to harrass passers and for whatever reason we can't get penetration.
  17. cblesz

    cblesz Rookie

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    Wow...you guys are insane. Hobbs is the weak link in the secondary, period. Opposing quarterbacks go after him all day. Helps that Samuel is on the other side, but please. Call them bad PI calls (which many are) but he got beat twice in the Indy game alone. One WAS a bad PI call, but the other, Wayne dropped.
  18. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    I also think Hobbs play has been good, not great, this year and is far from being the issue.

    The start of the year Eugene Wilson was playing great and then the real Mr. Glass got hurt and they haven't been the same. He is their only cover safety. I hope he can get healthy and stay so through the playoffs.

    This also plays into getting Meriweather ready to go next year. Not sure if he's in the dog house or just not getting the scheme but if he's not the solution they must address it going forward.
  19. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Great insights and great breakdown of each DBs play.
  20. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Nobody wants to mention the complete lack of QB pressure. I think it was mostly a schematic choice (I didn't see too many blitzes), but the pass rush didn't get near Feeley. Give an accurate QB six seconds to throw, and Champ Bailey is going to get beat more often than not. Belichick was happy to take away Westbrook and let Feeley try to beat them. Turns out it almost happened.
  21. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Come back when you know what you're talking about, rather than changing your argument and acting as if we "guys" are wrong. This team rarely gets beaten deep on the corners. That is, in fact, exactly why they play the defense they do. In fact, feel free to look at last night's game for an example.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  22. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    We blitzed a few times in the first half and got beat.
  23. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    As I said, Hobbs has been getting beat on short routes, and inside routes. this is obviously something I don't like and think he needs to improve on. He's given up a few deep passes this season, but he usually has good coverage on deep passes, and is in position. Last week he was beat deep by Parrish when he fell down trying to cutback for the underthrown ball. Can you point out the other times he's been toasted "deep" this season? I don't really remember the Patriots secondary as a whole getting burned on deep passes this season.

    Reggie Wayne's dropped pass doesn't count getting beat deep either, as it was Hobbs getting his hand/arm in front of Wayne that caused him to drop the ball. Last year in the AFCCG Hobbs had good coverage deep against Wayne and had a couple of nice breakups.
  24. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Way I saw it, Hobbs was beat more in the 10-25 yard range - I wasn't referring to true deep balls, the intermediate range was what was exploited last nite. And as you said, his cushion is a product of scheme.
  25. cblesz

    cblesz Rookie

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    OK. Sorry, you guys are right. Ellis Hobbs is a tremendous cornerback. My apologies...:)
  26. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    And Asante got beat by Marvin Harrison for a TOUCHDOWN last year didn't he?

    These pro-bowl WR's have a lot of talent ya know, you act as if every CB in the league is shutting them down except Hobbs...

    Hobbs has the talent to play tight man coverage, but no matter what CB you are, tight man coverage with no help over the top opens up the risk for a big play. Other than falling down last week on the deep ball, Hobbs has not been beaten deep, no one in the secondary has. CJ got basically shut down, Hobbs was playing tight man on him with a double team (I think) for most of the night.

    Why the breakdown on intermediate and inside routes? I don't know, but I'm sure BB will be working on it from now through the playoffs.
  27. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rookie

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    I didn't sift through this entire thread but when the heck is the last time Hobbs had an interception? That guy has hands of stone. He can't catch anything.
  28. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Ummm...last game, no?
  29. VJCPatriot

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    Hobbs has been playing poorly as of late, but it is kind of unfair to put all the blame on his shoulders. Let's hope he can step up his game for the rest of the season...
  30. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    This is something I noticed too.

    It seemed the Patriots D-line really didn't get much pressure on Feeley, and the limited amount of pressure that was put on Feeley came from Vrabel, Colvin, AD, and Harrison. There was a few times where the pressure actually effected the play, but for the most part Feeley was able to get rid of the football before someone finally got close to him.

    To me this was a combination of:
    The D-line not playing at their usual level.
    The Eagles O-line playing very good.
    Vrabel didn't seem to be getting there as fast...shoulder might still be effecting him?
    Feeley being able to hang in there under pressure to deliver the pass.
    The secondary giving up leverage to easily, and their not making the adjustments soon enough.
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