Ross Tucker: Why Manning is a better NFL quarterback than Montana, Brady

[omahacolt]

teams win championships

not players


its hilarious that is the only thing pats fans have to hang their hats on

 

[rbh24]

teams win championships

not players


its hilarious that is the only thing pats fans have to hang their hats on

3 rings vs 1 1 who wins?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The media just loves to jump on the bandwagon. I'm always slow, very slow to make these kind of judgments. Manning is arguably at the peak of his career (in terms of stature); Brady is probably at his lowest stature. Now's a great time to make the call, right?

Just two years ago, Tom Brady was on the throne to become king of all quarterbacks. Despite playing an outstanding Super Bowll considering the pressure, he's suddenly trying to crack the top 5? A defensive stop, and Brady's at the top, right? True, if you ask the media.

I look around the sports world, and it makes me stop to think... it's best to wait until retirement, and even then, five years after that, before we make judgments like these.

Roger Federer was the greatest tennis player of all-time, bar none. To me, he was on that road. I still think he's amazing... an absolutely unmatched period of dominance. He MAY be the greatest when he's done. In 2007, I would have said he will likely become the greatest. Now, there's a problem. How can you be called the greatest of all-time if there's someone better than you, that beats you constantly, in the middle of your prime? Rafael Nadal is not the best tennis player ever, but in my book, he has seriously damaged Federer's claim. Who saw that coming?

Barry Bonds was the best baseball player of all-time in 2001. Roger Clemens was arguably the best pitcher ever. Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa put up the most memorable seasons ever. Where are they now?

All I'm saying is that Manning has yet to even win his second Super Bowl... can't they AT LEAST wait to see what he does, considering that his one knock is poor postseason play (3 TDs, 7 INTs in the Colts 2006 run.) Even after that, let's just see what happens. I remind you that Brett Farve was ready to retire in 2001, and if he had, he might be remembered as a top 3 QB. He has completely sullied everything about him that resembles a "winner," alienated his Green Bay following, and become a laughingstock to half the NFL fanbase. Sure, he's still impressive and tough, but come on, the guy is a huge choker. Contrarily, John Elway was going to "Dan Marino Purgatory" until his final two seasons. A lot can happen both ways.

Suppose Manning wins the Super Bowl and next season Brady leads the Patriots to #4. The Ross Tuckers of the world will be all over it, proclaiming that no one can stop Brady. I've heard that before. Injuries happen fast in the NFL. No one's reputation is permanent.

 

[SyN65]

teams win championships

not players


its hilarious that is the only thing pats fans have to hang their hats on

I'm a Pats fan and this is 100% right.

SB wins is a TEAM accomplishment not an individual one.

I'm so sick of the "Well Brady has 3 rings and Peyton has 1 so that's all that matters." argument. It's terrible.

News flash: The Patriots during the SB years were A LOT better overall than the Patriots of today.

You can talk about Peyton's overall record in the playoffs but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you replaced Brady with Peyton on the Patriots and gave him Belichick I'm sure he'd have a few more rings too.

So is Peyton better? I don't know. I'd wait until their careers are over to judge them. Right now I'd give him the edge if I had to.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

OL are supposed to be the smart guys. Of course Tucker didn't last long here so...

Apparently the real tipping point for Ross was Brady's injury... If I were a more vindictive person I might start pulling for Manning's turn at the ACL rehab...

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

Just for kicks I just took a bunch of potential activities and tossed them into a hat, and drew out the following choices which I swore an oath on my Brother's life I'd choose between. I'm now regretting that decision as each one of them is equally awful.

1. Read this article in it's entirety.

2. Play Russian Roulette with an Automatic.

3. Watch the Tonight Show with Jay Leno as host for at least 3 minutes. (I'm with CoCo)

4. Get the Flesh Eating disease in my Wang.

5. Have Peyton Manning set a Superbowl record for Touchdowns while listening to the game as announced by Bob Lamey (that terrible Colts Radio announcer who's voice sounds like a more nasal version of Gilbert Gottfried).

 

[RhodyPatriot]

One game over .500 and a playoff career passer rating of 89 = better than Brady of Montana???
Monday is going to be so sweet when all these mediots have to rewrite their silly fantasy novels.
I tell ya the more I'm made aware (not about to waste my time reading such drivel) of these articles and the more I see quotes from guys like Tony Dungy "I'll be shocked if the Colts lose" the more my confidence grows in the Saints winning this game.
The Colts are in for one rude awakening.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

teams win championships

not players


its hilarious that is the only thing pats fans have to hang their hats on

Why is that...it was what Colts fans hung their hats on for the first half of Mannings career.

 

[SVN]

brady will never win this argument .there will be always BB's shadow.And even BB will be always questioned of his sucess without brady. Unfortunately no one wonders how dungy would be without manning .

 

[ausbacker]

teams win championships

not players


its hilarious that is the only thing pats fans have to hang their hats on

This is rather funny given Colts fans justifications over the years being entirely regular season stats based.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

brady will never win this argument .there will be always BB's shadow.And even BB will be always questioned of his sucess without brady. Unfortunately no one wonders how dungy would be without manning .

That's because we know. What we don't know is how Manning would be without Moore/Mudd and a GM in Polian determined to build and maintain a team around him. And we may never know because Polian did whatever it took to retain them for 12 seasons and counting and 9 years in the formula worked and 12 years in it is on the verge of working again... Oddly this would be the first time the formula really worked because of Manning, as the last time it worked almost in spite of him. (Which kind of puts him more in Big Ben's league...) It took a shift towards emphasizing defense and signing our legendary FA PK to get him there and a couple of jag RB's having career days to win it all the first time. This one appears to be all on Manning, which ultimately was the case in all four of the superbowls we competed in, so if they win or lose on Sunday that should be a factor...

Brady did what he did without the benefit of being treated like a coddled centerpiece.

But at the end of the day what will always seperate them in the minds of those doing the evaluating is draft position. It was bad enough the reigning GOAT Montana emerged from the third round while another #1 who should by rights have been (and whom the often insist remains in the conversation) never won one (of course because his team was at fault). But that Brady was picked 199th to Manning's #1 drives some of them to cling to the belief that somehow on some level (talent) Manning must be better. Ergo less is more and he will never have to surpass Brady's post season accomplishments, just approach them to validate their preconceived notions. They point to Belichick and defense as an excuse, which is comical considering ours folded down the stretch in all 4 superbowls...

The argument will rage on as long as the debate over what makes a QB great (prolific passing capacity vs. the capacity to do whatever it takes to win) continues. Brady's 2007 season caused the passing prowess (talent) contingent fits. That it didn't result in a ring and was followed by a season lost to injury has been their salvation. They were dreading 2008 and 2009 has given them renewed hope. They are therefore scrambling to pronounce Manning while they have the chance...

 

[Fball]

That's because we know. What we don't know is how Manning would be without Moore/Mudd and a GM in Polian determined to build and maintain a team around him. And we may never know because Polian did whatever it took to retain them for 12 seasons and counting and 9 years in the formula worked and 12 years in it is on the verge of working again... Oddly this would be the first time the formula really worked because of Manning, as the last time it worked almost in spite of him. (Which kind of puts him more in Big Ben's league...) It took a shift towards emphasizing defense and signing our legendary FA PK to get him there and a couple of jag RB's having career days to win it all the first time. This one appears to be all on Manning, which ultimately was the case in all four of the superbowls we competed in, so if they win or lose on Sunday that should be a factor...

Brady did what he did without the benefit of being treated like a coddled centerpiece.

But at the end of the day what will always seperate them in the minds of those doing the evaluating is draft position. It was bad enough the reigning GOAT Montana emerged from the third round while another #1 who should by rights have been (and whom the often insist remains in the conversation) never won one (of course because his team was at fault). But that Brady was picked 199th to Manning's #1 drives some of them to cling to the belief that somehow on some level (talent) Manning must be better. Ergo less is more and he will never have to surpass Brady's post season accomplishments, just approach them to validate their preconceived notions. They point to Belichick and defense as an excuse, which is comical considering ours folded down the stretch in all 4 superbowls...

The argument will rage on as long as the debate over what makes a QB great (prolific passing capacity vs. the capacity to do whatever it takes to win) continues. Brady's 2007 season caused the passing prowess (talent) contingent fits. That it didn't result in a ring and was followed by a season lost to injury has been their salvation. They were dreading 2008 and 2009 has given them renewed hope. They are therefore scrambling to pronounce Manning while they have the chance...

That's a fairly Brady-centric view of things.

It's a real stretch to say it was almost all Brady because the defense folded down the stretch in all 4 SB's. They held the greatest show on turf to 14 points. I'm sure Manning would take that on Sunday against the Saints, if he could. They also held the Giants to 17 points, and forced the Eagles into multiple turnovers & a long last scoring drive that basically left them no further opportunity to score.

They also played a major role in actually getting the Pats to those Superbowls.

Brady's "clutch" credentials are undeniable, and this is not meant as a slam on him, because that would be dumb. He's an all-time great, without a doubt.

But I do think there is little doubt that Manning would have another ring or 2 if Belichek had been coaching him, with those defenses that the Pats had earlier in the decade.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

If Tyree doesn't make the helmut catch or if Assante holds onto the INT, then Brady has 4 rings and this conversation is over.

OR if Bernard Pollack doesn't take out Brady's knee, Brady & Moss pick up where they left in '07 into '08 and '09, and this conversation is over.

 

[Bella*chick]

The only reason these articles are appearing is because in the here and now, Manning is in the SB. Of course he has the upper hand. I don't recall this stuff being written in 2007 because Brady was in the here and now. It's all just a waste of time.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That's a fairly Brady-centric view of things.

It's a real stretch to say it was almost all Brady because the defense folded down the stretch in all 4 SB's. They held the greatest show on turf to 14 points. I'm sure Manning would take that on Sunday against the Saints, if he could. They also held the Giants to 17 points, and forced the Eagles into multiple turnovers & a long last scoring drive that basically left them no further opportunity to score.

They also played a major role in actually getting the Pats to those Superbowls.

Brady's "clutch" credentials are undeniable, and this is not meant as a slam on him, because that would be dumb. He's an all-time great, without a doubt.

But I do think there is little doubt that Manning would have another ring or 2 if Belichek had been coaching him, with those defenses that the Pats had earlier in the decade.

I'm not so sure because Manning didn't fit this system. He was more inclined to go for it and force plays ala Tom's predecessor and he really struggled reading defenses which would have further complicated taking what was given... He also wasn't the kind of personality guys on both sides of the ball wanted to run through a wall for because his temperement was more inclined towards finger pointing and pouting. That's why they didn't win until Dungy began to assert himself ever so gently in an effort to teambuild a mentality predicated on Peyton can't do it alone and the rest of you actually do matter as more than roster fodder. To his credit, over time, Manning came to terms with that approach. It's something Favre could never do. Accept that it's not all me unless we really need it to be... Tom was born accepting that premise.

But at the end of the day Manning's contract demands would have precluded Belichick ever building or maintaining those defenses Brady benefitted from in part because Brady accommodated them financially. Ty Law would have been gone before a ring was ever won. Possibly Milloy too. Harrison never would have been a possibility here. Tedy would have remained but only because he nearly eschews contract $$$. Polian could have built a better defense with something other than smoke and mirrors and Tony Dungy's gentle touch which Manning necessitated if he was signing Brady's checks for the last several seasons. That would have allowed him to built his team differently, more balanced and less top heavy, and if Polian is the personnel genius he's claimed to be he could do that around Brady.

 

[Sivy]

This argument will never end...Even if Brady throws for 60 TD, goes 19-0 and wins the superbowl next season, people will still think manning is better. Why? because people love manning, its a manning love fest world out there, and unfortunetly for us people who know the truth that hands down, 100% for sure, that Tom Brady is a better QB, the arguement will never end. Brady wasnt suppose to make it, hell he was the 199th over all pick, and a 4th string qb. All he did was step up in peytons house (the nfl) and tare sht down, making payton seem like 2nd best...people couldnt stand it, payton was suppose to be the poster child, the greatest player ever...and here comes this low life, player who had pretty much NO CHANCE at success in the nfl and he just wins, and wins with less, and wins more than Manning. People cant stand it, they are jelous...so they let their hate get in the way of the facts...lets ignore the fact that Payton plays atleast 8 games in a dome a year, and 4 more in the warm weather of texas and Florida. Lets forget that he had a team built around him, and refs on his side. Forget all that because he throws for more yards, and more tds on aveage, and has better numbers...forget that Brady wins superbowls, forget that Brady led his team to a 16-0 regular season with a tough as hell scheudle. Forget that...al that matters is that payton calls out a bunch of gibberish from the line and gets calls in his favor more often than not, and the fact that the entire country (besides us that see the truth) Love him, and they want no part of Tom Brady messing that up....but everyone KNOWS. THE KNOW, deep down in there minds that Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning. Thats it, end of arguement.

 

[Patspsycho]

The only reason these articles are appearing is because in the here and now, Manning is in the SB. Of course he has the upper hand. I don't recall this stuff being written in 2007 because Brady was in the here and now. It's all just a waste of time.

It'll last until Monday morning.

It's a waste of time but it helps pass the time until FA starts.

 

[BradyManny]

But I do think there is little doubt that Manning would have another ring or 2 if Belichek had been coaching him, with those defenses that the Pats had earlier in the decade.

But where would Brady be if the Pats had used first rounders on offensive skill positions in the draft every year? Wayne, Harrison, Clark, Addai, Gonzalez, Brown. The Pats have never used a 1st on a wideout in Brady's time as a Patriot.

 

[Ring 6]

teams win championships

not players


its hilarious that is the only thing pats fans have to hang their hats on

Yeah, how lame can you be, hanging your hat on something as irrelvant as whether or not you win. We should realize that losing with good stats is more important.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm a Pats fan and this is 100% right.

SB wins is a TEAM accomplishment not an individual one.

I'm so sick of the "Well Brady has 3 rings and Peyton has 1 so that's all that matters." argument. It's terrible.

News flash: The Patriots during the SB years were A LOT better overall than the Patriots of today.

You can talk about Peyton's overall record in the playoffs but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you replaced Brady with Peyton on the Patriots and gave him Belichick I'm sure he'd have a few more rings too.

So is Peyton better? I don't know. I'd wait until their careers are over to judge them. Right now I'd give him the edge if I had to.

You are making the leap that shouldn't be allowed to be made.
You are giving credit for Manning making the plays that would win those 3 SBs when Brady did, and he didn't. You just can't do that. Manning had his own opportunities to make plays to win titles, and didnt (but for once). You are taking THE criteria that is most important and assuming Manning could do it, when he has not.