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Rooting for the "Underdog": UDFA RB Roy Finch

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Danger Zone, May 12, 2014.

  1. Se7eN

    Se7eN Rookie

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    #11 Jersey

    Hopefully he starts so we don't have to see McCourty back there.
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  2. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    It's a tad early for me to project winners and losers but Finch brings some strong skills to the RB group. It is easy to like what we see on film and he has already shown some of that in OTAs. He is getting an early look at KR along with Boyce and Dunn, each of whom has the ability to see the daylight and get to it in a hurry. Of course, most guys in an NFL camp have talent, and the UDFAs also bring their own baggage that made them UDFAs in the first place.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
  3. RayClay

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    #75 Jersey

    167 lbs.
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  4. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    I like Finch, BUT I REALLY like Stephen Houston, a big strong fast back. I'm hoping he has a great camp.
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  5. OhExaulted1

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    #15 Jersey

    But I love my blanky.:)
    linus.jpg
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  6. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Ditto on McCourty at KR, but my money's on Josh Boyce for the job. IMO it would be very hard to carry Finch on the gameday roster unless Vereen or White were injured.
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  7. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone On the Roster

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    Finch still showing strong. I see now why people get caught up in seeing their um.. blankys do well.
  8. Bombdog

    Bombdog Rookie

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    #54 Jersey

    Finch looks really good in his highlight videos. Sounds like he has stood out in OTA's. Hopefully he learned his lesson at Oklahoma. If he keeps working hard keeps a good attitude he has a shot on making the 53
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  9. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Mine is Jeremy Gallon. I know he's another undersized guy, but I love his game.
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  10. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone On the Roster

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    Woot, glad to hear it!
  11. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    I definitely like him, but I don't see what role he fits into in the NFL. He lacks size, and that's not just a statement on his height. There are short guys like MJD who, through thick build and low center of gravity just don't go down. Finch isn't one of those guys. You can be short without being small, but he's short and small.

    Also, his breakaway speed isn't impressive. I did notice that his vision and cutback ability are really good, though, and he seems to navigate his way through tight lanes really well. Based on that, I think he does have potential, but I can only see him sticking if he proves to have great hands, in which case he could develop into a poor man's Woodhead. Here's some comparisons, with Dexter McCluster and Chris Rainey thrown in since they're the only <180 pound RBs that I can think of who's had anything close to success.

    Woodhead
    Height: 5'08"
    Weight: 197
    40: 4.38
    20: 2.50
    10: 1.44
    Bench: 20
    Vert: 38
    Broad: 10'01"
    SS: 4.20
    3Cone: 7.03

    Vereen
    Height: 5'10"
    Weight: 210
    40: 4.49
    20: 2.58
    10: 1.58
    Bench: 31
    Vert: 34
    Broad: 9'07"
    SS: 4.28
    3Cone: 6.95

    James White
    Height: 5'09"
    Weight: 204
    40: 4.57
    20: 2.51
    10: 1.58
    Bench: 23
    Vert: 32
    Broad: 9'06"
    SS: 4.20
    3Cone: 7.05

    Finch
    Height: 5'06
    Weight: 177
    40: 4.50
    20: 2.64
    10: 1.65
    Bench: 22
    Vert: 33
    Broad: 9'06"
    SS: 4.25
    3Cone: 7.07

    Dexter McCluster
    Height: 5'08
    Weight: 172
    40: 4.53
    20: 2.50
    10: 1.55
    Bench: 20
    Vert: 37
    Broad: 9'10"
    SS: 4.06
    3Cone: 6.73

    Chris Rainey
    Height: 5'08
    Weight: 180
    40: 4.35
    20: 2.58
    10: 1.50
    Bench: 16
    Vert: 36
    Broad: 10'00"
    SS: 3.93
    3Cone: 6.50

    Kevin Faulk
    Height: 5'08
    Weight: 205
    40: 4.47
    20: 2.62
    10: 1.61
    Vert: 34
    Broad: 9'06"
    SS: 4.09
    3Cone: 7.14

    Those numbers pretty well summarize my issues with Finch. The size dropoff from a viable RB is huge, even compared to someone like Woodhead who was already suspectible to arm tackles in his own right. That dropoff in size, however, isn't offset by a corresponding increase in speed or agility. Look at his speed/agility stats compared to Chris Rainey, who is the same size. Not even in the same ballpark. Dexter McCluster is basically the same size as Finch with a similar 40 time, and he makes his living by being crazy agile (look at his 10/SS/3C compared to Finch's) and being more WR than RB. Finch doesn't have that huge agility edge, so if he wants to go down that path, he'll have to have WR-quality hands just as a starting point.

    This just makes me wonder what situations he can realistically contribute in this year. My first guess would be KR. This requires that Belichick both be willing to devote a roster spot and that he beat out Gallon, who IMO plays a position of greater importance where he's more likely to contribute. My second guess would be as a Woodhead/McCluster style hybrid RB/WR... but again, McCluster's agility is in a whole other league compared to Finch's, and Woodhead is much bigger.

    As a receiving back, I think there are two types of roles that are in play: you can exceed as someone who's great on draws, pass blocking, and catching screens and swing passes. Kevin Faulk and Woodhead, basically. I'm going to assume that Finch has the hands to be a really good receiving back, since if he doesn't he won't make it past the first round of cuts anyway. Assuming that that's the case, I could see Finch being really good in this role... if he could pass block, which at 177 pounds I just can't see happening.

    The other type of receiving back, for me, is basically Vereen. Vereen's different than everyone else on this list, IMO--and I still maintain that this gives him by far the highest ceiling of any of the players listed--because he has the hands and experience to run deep WR routes. He's the only guy on this list who's going to attempt this play, let alone make it. I haven't seen anything that would suggest that White or Finch have that in their arsenal, so I'm assuming that they don't.

    In this case, I think the combine numbers kinda back up the eye test. 177 pounds is too small to be a 'real' NFL RB, and his agility numbers aren't good enough to put him in the McCluster hybrid RB/WR class. If I'm going to bet on a RB who's that small, he's going to need to have Chris Rainey-level athleticism, and Finch most definitely doesn't. The only way he'll have any measure of success, IMO, is to have exceptional hands, to the point that you can line him up in the slot and not feel like you've sacrificed catching ability relative to a replacement-level slot receiver (Gallon? Collie?) He'll need to show that, plus great vision, to have any shot at making the team. As an UDFA, though, it's worth giving him a shot no matter how unlikely it is that he'll stick.
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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  12. rochrist

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    Did you watch people bounce off him in that video. Granted, college, but still Div I bigtime college.

    He also seems very adept at setting up his blockers.
  13. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone On the Roster

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    Gallon is probably right up beside Finch, pace for pace for 1st place on my blinkie list TBH.
  14. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    Based on the YouTube highlight reel...this kid is going to get killed at this level. Pull a stutter step/jump cut at the los with JJ Watt closing...consistently spins to the inside and seemed to let the ball flail out...cutting dead up the hash eight yards in front of a safety with a shoulder down will result in IR for said shoulder or a few games after being knocked out, not a missed arm tackle.

    I wish him luck, but Jesus.
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  15. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Unless, of course, we end up keeping 5 RBs.

    I already think he has a leg up on Houston due to Houston's blitz pickup issues which seem to have carried over to the NFL thus far--although it's early yet.
  16. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone On the Roster

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    I know people get excited every year for the potential of our late round and undrafted prospects.

    Is this just more of that, or do we have an exceptionally talented group of youngsters out there this year? Houston, White, Gallon, Jones, Watson, and Finch?
  17. Armchair Quarterback

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    #37 Jersey

    These statements might explain it.
    Roy Finch falls out of favor - ESPN * | Oklahoma 247Sports

    Co-offensive coordinator Jay Norvell explained that Finch didn't play in El Paso because of poor habits in practice and film study.

    Finch started off the 2011 season on the sidelines while Dominique Whaley and Brennan Clay shouldered the rushing load. Finch's inadequate attention to detail -- especially in pass protecting for Landry Jones -- was the most given explanation.

    "Roy is going to have to practice better to get in the mix," Norvell said. "He's got to do his part to play."
  18. Armchair Quarterback

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    #37 Jersey

    Unless he is equally as bad or worse. I don't think Finch is much of a blocker.
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  19. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    Seriously - it's hard to give an honest opinion on him without sounding like a contrarian jerk, but you pretty much nailed it. 177 pound RBs don't fare well in the NFL.
  20. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Sure, but Big 12 and the NFL are worlds apart. You can be a bit smaller and a bit slower in the Big 12. That's true for every college conference, really, although less true in the SEC than elsewhere. The worst player on the field in any given NFL defensive formation would have been a standout big 12 player.

    Small players can survive in the NFL, but they'd better be smart and they'd better be freakishly agile. I want Finch to succeed, but I don't see it happening based on physical attributes alone. I think his best case scenario might be a year on the practice squad on an NFL training regimen. Maybe he didn't work as hard in the weight room as he should have at OU, and he's actually able to put on 10-15 pounds or so without sacrificing any agility. If that happens and he works hard on his receiving and blocking, I could maybe see him shaping up in the Woodhead/Sproles mold.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014

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