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Rookie wage scale not a sure thing

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by jczxohn1, Feb 26, 2011.

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  1. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. I Augustus

    I Augustus Rookie

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    Ha ! hold my Brain ; be still my beating Heart !

    ( Jerry Richardson faced with a future dilema of the number 1 overall pick ).
  3. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    When was the last time that Ron Borges had a story that was even remotely close to fact. Seriously, why do people insist on posting his garbage?
  4. BPF

    BPF Rookie

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    Bingo on Borges. As far as De Smith goes I don't think his silence means he doesn't think there is a place for a rookie wage scale. Of course the agents don't want this thing because it then makes them less relevant to rookies and it will probably kill the small agents.
  5. BPF

    BPF Rookie

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  6. Brady2Welker

    Brady2Welker Rookie

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    Agents don't want this to happen, because it hurts them, but the rookie wage scale is something the owners and players want. Without these ridiculous Rookie contracts in the upper half of the draft more money can be put towards veterans and retired players and the owners don't have to worry about cutting someone worth like 48 million (I think that was Russel's check) and a first round pick. This is an issue where both sides win... well except the agents.
  7. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    It might not be a sure thing until the agreement is done but of all the issues the league and NFLPA are arguing over this is the one that everyone thinks will be part of the new agreement. It is only a matter of how it is structured.
  8. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    #18 Jersey

    This is good in theory, but the likelihood is that the saved money will just go straight to the owners' pockets. The rookie wage scale is something I can only in good conscience support if it's backed up with a mandatory boost to pensions and insurance for retired players and a significant raise of the minimum salary for veterans.

    It's worth noting that after about pick 5, the pay for rookies isn't crippling and by the latter half of the 1st round there is a significant chance that if any of those players contribute as expected during their rookie contracts that they will be playing at a rate far below market value.
  9. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well then you will be pleased to note that the owners have already proposed that the savings from their rookie wage scale proposal ($200M) be split between veteran players and the pre 1993 retirees who got screwed by the economics of their times and their unions fixation on securing cash at hand and FA over increasing long term benefits.

    The union on the other hand has counter proposed that the rookie cap result in dramatically earlier FA (2-3 years vs. 4-5 in the owners proposal) and that 50% of the savings be funneled directly back to the top performing rookies over the course of their briefly capped rookie deals...with the remainder divided between proven veterans and retirees. Tells you a lot about the continued mindset in this organization and the influence a handful of top agents wield on it. Tom Condon wasn't Gene Upshaw's agent for all those years for just a %...
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  10. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid On the Roster

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    #3 Jersey

    Again: Bingo!!

    And as Brother Broonz points out: anything from Borges the Plagiarizer warrants serious Round File consideration.
  11. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    If the cap remains at the same level, it shouldn't affect the agents at all, as they will still their 2% or 3% of the same size pie. The only difference is that it will be from more smaller (or just not as large as #1-10 in the draft)contracts from veterans who might tend to be more savvy than the rookies with their larger contracts at the top of the draft.

    It will likely make the agents less relevant to a college player if he knows exactly what he will be paid if drafted at a certain position and the only job of the agent is to get a higher draft position. Then when the player has been in the league for a few years and is more worldly, he can chose his agent for the next contract. I can see why the agents like the existing system, because they can exploit the guys still in school.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  12. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    You are right but some agents certainly have a preference as it relates to how they are paid and when. If operating under the assumption that an agent is paid the same way as their clients (bonus, guaranteed dollars, salary and endorsements), they will not favor a rookie cap as (another assumption) it may mean their initial commission will be less up-front/guaranteed dollars.

    Again, big assumption here....
  13. Rob0729

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    The NFLPA are going into the bargaining as the "System isn't broken, so we shouldn't fix it attitude". Of course they are going to take the position that the rookie wage scale is just fine. The thing is they know there will be a rookie cap so by fighting to keep the rookie wage scale as it is now is just a negotiation ploy so they can conceed their position while negotiating to gain something else they want. If they admitted the rookie wage scale was out of whack, they would give the owners an advantage in the bargaining. This is Negotiation 101.
  14. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    #18 Jersey

    What's wrong with earlier free agency for rookies or that highly performing players on their rookie contracts get more money? These are good measures, though it is unfortunate that the money going to retirees and veteran players would have to be decreased.

    The fact that it benefits the agents is incidental.
  15. vyrago

    vyrago Rookie

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    As you yourself have pointed out, the NFLPA isn't really a union. Real union members wouldn't agree to new hirees being paid many times what veteran members get. Most union members, in organizations we recognize as unions, don't have agents either. If you belong to a union you take what it can get for you--at least that was my experience.
  16. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    MoLewisrocks already mentioned the discussions to split the difference, but I'd also add that the return of the salary cap floor would limit the saved money going right back into the owner's pocket. It would probably just mean more money goes to vets, where it should be.

    And you're right about the top 5 being crippling, but even the top half of the 1st round is still extremely expensive. As the 9th pick, C.J. Spiller got 5 years, $25M ($20.8M guaranteed), which could escalate to $37.5M. As the 15th pick, Jason Pierre-Paul got 5 years, $20.05M ($11.629M guaranteed). So I think it's the top 15 or 16 that need to be adjusted instead of the top 5.
  17. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth Rookie

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    The rookie wage scale is good for current player and owners. It is also good for the league as a whole since it brings more parity; bad teams do not need to pay outrageous amounts to unproven rooks.

    The problem is the weasel-ly agents and unfortunately these weasels have a lot of power.
  18. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    I admit it. If I were a professional athlete, I would recruit a guy like Scott Boras to represent me in a heartbeat.
  19. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    According to this
    The Rookie Sacrifice: NFL, NFLPA proposals unveiled | National Football Post

    it was the players who are including the retirees in their proposal, not the owners.
  20. McCourty Island

    McCourty Island Rookie

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    I haven't been following the proposals that closely but even if the owners did want to funnel any savings from the rookie contracts back to the vets aren't the owners also proposing to take another $1B of revenue before splitting it with the players?

    Wouldn't this effectively negate any additional money that would have gone to the veteran players anyways?
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