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Ron Paul objects to FEMA

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Aug 26, 2011.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    msnbc.com - Breaking news, science and tech news, world news, US news, local news- msnbc.com

    GILFORD, N.H. -- After a lunch speech today, Ron Paul slammed the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, and said that no national response to Hurricane Irene is necessary.

    "We should be like 1900; we should be like 1940, 1950, 1960," Paul said. "I live on the Gulf Coast; we deal with hurricanes all the time. Galveston is in my district.

    "There's no magic about FEMA. They're a great contribution to deficit financing and quite frankly they don't have a penny in the bank. We should be coordinated but coordinated voluntarily with the states," Paul told NBC News. "A state can decide. We don't need somebody in Washington."
  2. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    [​IMG]

    This was Galveston in 1900 after a Hurricane left 8000 dead. Sort of looks like what a Ron Paul Presidency would look like........
  3. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl Rookie

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    Good for Paul, you want to live by the ocean? Good! You pay for it then, when your house get destroyed and your family dies, it will be of your own ignorance!

    We should not as tax payers, keep paying our taxes to idiots who can't seem to get it though there think skulls, that living by a river or an ocean is not a good idea for a various number of reasons.

    Need to disband FEMA and maybe these "people" will smarten up a bit.....You and others feel free to donate to them over and over and over and over and over again till your bankrupt......Ignorance is bliss.......

    As for Paul being a disaster as prez, he can't do any worse then the tool in there now.......or the idiot before him....:bricks:
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  4. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl Rookie

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    So if I live by an active volcano and my house get's burned down you going to help me pay for it?:bricks:

    Didn't think so....
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Paul is so ideologically driven, he ignores the realities a modern, more crowded, more complex society, but most importantly he ignores simple human compassion. If our politicians reflect who were are as a people, then our government will naturally want to help those who are in need. During a disaster, there absolutely should be a group like FEMA to coordinate a national response and ensure that the resources are available to reduce the impact of of the disaster. People who suddenly lose everything, are traumatized by the horrors of a disaster, and who have no one to turn to should be able to turn to their government. To me, FEMA is a natural part of the defense of the nation.
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How about the tornado in Joplin.. was that a person who lost their house, their choice??

    How about a volcano erupting in the northwest, would those people be at fault??

    How about a Tsunami, are those people responsible??

    How about the person who home is effected due to a 100 year flood, are those people responsible??

    How about the people in NYC near WTC, are they responsible for what happened??

    Limited government is a buzzword, but in reality we need a level of intervention that are beyond the scope of what states and municipalities can take care of.

    The whole concept of limiting where you can move under the guise of "limited government" is certainly a contradiction..

    Paul is politicizing the misfortune of many people.. but that seems to be what happens, just like Fred Phelps.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm getting to like this little guy Ron Paul more every day, what religion is he?
  8. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    So in a nation that has tornadoes in the midsection, earthquakes on the West Coast ( and the East!) as well as the New Madrid Fault in Missouri, and Hurricanes that have hit from the Texas coast all the way up to New England, as well as having active volcanoes in Washington State and,Hawaii, where do you suggest people live?
    I think I've covered about 80% of the population centers. As someone wrote, FEMA is a part of the national security. It's not flood or fire insurance but low interest loans and helps to ensure people are protected from the elements after disasters with trailers and food and water. It is disaster mitigation when it overwhelms local authorities.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  9. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I know when I lived in Texas, one of the most horrific disasters which is mentioned when talking tragedies was the Galveston hurricane. Seriously, who wants this guy in charge? Defenders will spin that he wants states responsibility or whatever. Just like the spin on his Civil Rights position. He's got some good ideas, and he's got whacky ones too. He doesn't make the cut, not even placed on the practice team.
  10. PatsFanInVa

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    I love where he says FEMA "[doesn't] have a penny in the bank!"

    Really? Since when was FEMA supposed to carry over saved assets?

    He's just saying this sh1t to make sure he's never elected dog-catcher. He may be your eccentric uncle Ned in the likability category, but he is and wants to remain a protest candidate cycle after cycle.

    You have to like that he says what he feels like saying, and it all hangs together pretty consistently -- turn American back 50 years, 100 years, 150 years, 230 years, before having a government effed it up. Blah blah blah. Everybody can smoke pot on the rubble, the wheel of fortune turns, we have no responsibility to each other, oh and by the way, discrimination will be naturally taken care of by the markets and the states.

    After all, the free market was already getting rid of Jim Crow... businesses were competing to attract black customers to their lunch counters... they were jussssssst about to launch a big free-market campaign, state by state, to integrate businesses. And if it weren't that we had public schools in the first place, there'd have been nothing to integrate, right?

    Now, he flits over to "why should we have a mutual obligation when people are suffering, instantly impoverished, or dying?"

    Here's a little document you should look into

    We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    And it gets better from there, Ron, allll the amendments included.

    PFnV
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Are you even thinking as you're typing???

    Much of modern industry needs to be near a water source. All goods need to be shipped - many of those goods need to be shipped by water.

    People need to live near to where they work - if there are a huge number of jobs near water there are going to be huge numbers of American citizens who live near that same water.

    Farmers need water - and they need the climates provided by living near a lake or an ocean or a river.

    As PFin Philly pointed out - where would you have people live? What area of the United States does not have some sort of natural disaster potential? It's not just rivers and oceans - it's lakes and wildfires and earthquakes and tornados and droughts and volcanos.

    As for it "not being a good idea to live by a river," please tell me where Americans are supposed to live? Pick me a place on the map - and remember these rivers are just the major ones - there are thousands of smaller rivers which are not even portrayed here.

    [​IMG]



    The United States of America has over 250,000 rivers, with a total of about 3,500,000 miles of rivers.
  12. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    And this is what it looks like today, WITHOUT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION

    [​IMG]

    You proved his point by showing the mass destruction, and then the rebuild.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  13. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    It's private property, buy insurance, protect your own goods, don't expect the government to bail you out becuase you WANT to live in a flood plain.

    If you don' t have insurance, not our fault, your now homeless... your free to make epic bad decisions, and it's not my fault, or job to save you from bad decisions.

    But then again, this entire Board thrives, eats, and ****s Socialism, and couldn't imagine being responsible for one self... So I understand that no one understands people's want to stand on their own without a nanny like so many here need and crave.
  14. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah, I'm sure Galveston has never received a penny of federal funds.
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What is your point?? ?? most do have insurance.. but recovery needs coordination which is the role of the federal government, have you ever been involved with disaster work?? The bulk of the work is done by faith based organizations.. who, thanks to George Bush, is now reimbursed by the federal government. Prior to this they relied on their congregation/consitituency.
  16. PatsFanInVa

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    Why'd they rebuild anything anywhere a hurricane could ever conceivably hit? :eek:

    Aren't human beings supposed to suddenly stop living near fault lines, rivers, or coasts? By the way, in support of that theory, shouldn't the most desireable property be in the middle of Iowa or Kansas or somewhere?

    Or is the free market bad at enforcing these other "self-reliant" "government = bad" principles that are supposed to be the bedrock of Paulesque anti-government crusades?

    Here's the fallacy: We are not self-contained islands, and the market does not have any interest in the public good. If anything, it's a magnetic mechanism for sucking wealth toward a pinacle at the top, continually grinding the poor and middle class into greater relative poverty.

    Indeed, the only real self-correction for this mechanism is the phenomenon of inflation, which of (of course) is the one modern "horror" that all governments -- however eviscerated -- are expected to combat to their last breaths. Even 1% inflation -- below any historic norm -- has been derided as an economic catastrophe by the local righties on this board.

    It's 2011. You're not personally a doctor, even if you know how to tie a tourniquet if you injure yourself severely in some rugged individualist sport. You're not a carpenter, even if you nailed together a lean-to once. You're not a hunter or a farmer or a herdsman, and if you are one of those, you're not likely to be all of them. And even if you are, you're not an expert in providing clean water to millions in an urban area, where people are going #1 and #2 non-stop, without the land area per person to make that process of waste elimination a sustainable pursuit.

    Believing that "state's better than federal, local's better than state, individual's better than local" is utterly inappropriate without gauging what level of government is scaled to the problem or challenge at hand. I don't think your town in West Virginia is likely to have launched anything into space, particularly not before proof of concept by a larger entity. It took a nation to get satellites up there. You and your buddies can't do it. The private sector couldn't do it. Now that's not to say that the private sector can't be given the fruits of the taxpayer's investment -- they were, of course.

    So what it boils down to, is that the taxpayer can buy the infrastructure of the corporation (for example, one that specializes in aerospace,) then have no right to any of its fruits (for example, disaster preparedness.)

    Or better yet, nobody can be aware of a hurricane until it kills 600 people. And then it's okay because 50 years later or something, people made pretty buildings that take a nice photo on a sunny day. edit - I was being an optimist. Make that 111 years later.

    And when someone's wandering around homeless having lost a couple family members in New Orleans, maybe we could have a private-sector industry come through and have them sign themselves into indentured servitude for seven years in exchange for a night's shelter or some such crap. After all, they'll make a completely rational decision about the tradeoff based on downside risk.

    And as their public-service charity for those who don't want to make the deal, they can distribute the picture you posted above of a rebuilt waterfront. That should cheer everybody up.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  17. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Epic fail here is a laundry list of some of the money that Galveston received.. where do you get your information??

    Recent Hurricane Ike Stories | abc13.com

    Federal funds sought to renovate Burnet

    Grant money in jeopardy 2 years after Ike - Houston Chronicle


  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    What makes you think there was no "federal intervention?" Because Ron Paul said so?

    The most apparent of Galveston's efforts to prevent a repeat of 1900's devastation is the seawall, which today runs from just past Boddeker Drive on the east end to just past Cove View Boulevard on the west.

    The current span of just more than 10 miles was built in six sections in a period of almost 60 years, said County Engineer Mike Fitzgerald.

    The oldest part of the seawall still visible runs from Sixth street to 39th street and was built between 1902 and 1904, he said.

    "The original seawall ran from Eighth Street at the Galveston Wharf front to Sixth Street and from Sixth to 39th," he said.

    The next section, which runs from 39th Street to 53rd Street, was built by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to protect its property at Fort Crockett and was completed in 1905.

    In the early 1920s, the county and U.S. Army extended the original wall eastward to protect Fort San Jacinto. That project took a sharp northward curve that originally ran from Sixth Street to Eighth Street out of the seawall.

    While Galveston received financial help from the county, state and federal governments, a large portion of the burden had to be carried by the city itself, at the expense of other projects.

    McComb sums it up about as well as it can be:

    "Human technology made it possible - for the city of Galveston to remain on such unstable land. The city did not flourish. Houston - left the island city far behind. Galveston simply survived.


    The 1900 Storm: Galveston, Texas


    The 1900 Galveston hurricane caused the greatest loss of life from a natural disaster in US history, between 6,000 and 10,000 dead, and the US government was deeply involved through the whole thing, including its reconstruction after, as the city was raised on stilts and rebuilt at taxpayers' expense, at cost so high that it never really recovered.

    Ron Paul Says Hurricane Victims Should Act Like It's 1900 In Galveston : TreeHugger
  19. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    "self-reliance" has an attractive ring to it -- especially when you're one of the people who is making a living for him/herself.

    But when you drill down just a bit, you realize that true libertarianism has a lot of flaws. That's why most people who consider themselves libertarians aren't actually libertarians.

    (Personally, I think it's the right starting point -- but only a starting point. Focus on individual rights. Ask whether the government should be involved. And go from there.)
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    I thought you had left the board in a tantrum.

    What happened to Mr. I'm Going to Make a Difference? Realized you're going to waste time someplace in your life, so may as well be here?

    Looking forward to seeing you support your "without federal intervention" (IN ALL CAPS!) claims. Or maybe you'll just run away...

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