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Ron Jaworski's take on the Pats, Brady and Branch

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by shatch62, Sep 15, 2006.

  1. shatch62

    shatch62 Practice Squad Player

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    This morning on 890, Mike and Mike had Jaworski on and they talked about the potential “dismantling†of the Pats dynasty. Golic thought the Pats were fine, Greenie was saying they have lost too much and they are not what they were and Jaworski says it is not time to panic but there are some cracks in the Pats armor. He went on to state the Brady, after taking a hometown discount should be a little worried that the Pats are not spending that money to keep his weapons (i.e Givens and now Branch) in N.E. I have a few issues with this statement:

    1) I am sure Brady is not happy he lost his favorite target but I also don’t think he would be happy if the Pats overpaid for Branch. Brady probably would be thinking “Hey, I took less and Deion gets overpaid? What the F@*k!†I think the Pats initial over – 3 year extension for $18.45 Million – was a little low but if they had offered another 3 million in the bonus money it could have got done. Be that as it may, it is over.
    2) While it is true the Pats lost their two leading WR from the last few years the Pats are trying to give Brady “weaponsâ€. Think about last year’s draft. EVERYONE thought the Pats would go heavy on defense. NOPE. Their first 4 draft picks were a RB, WR and 2 TEs. Laurence Maroney looks like he is going to be a stud. Chad Jackson so far has been a bust ( I know it is early and I think he will be good but if he is not on the active roster he is a bust) because of the hammy injury but he was arguably the best WR in the draft. David Thomas and Garret Mills are never going to be game breakers but if one of the two can grab 30-40 balls this year they will help move the chains. Also, once the Pats know Branch was gone they went out and got Doug Gabriel. Not saying he will be the next Randy Moss but if he can get 40-50 balls that will basically replace Givens production.

    The Pats philosophy is one a good one as long as they reload well. If Seau is the next Phifer and Jackson is the next Branch they will be fine. If Seau is the next Beisel and Jackson is the next Bethel, there might be issues.

    If – and this is a big if – the Pats can stay even somewhat healthy this year they should go 11-5 or better and be in the playoff hunt. The cupboard is far from bare – just filled with players that have yet to prove it on the field
     
  2. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hey Ron ... I wonder how sitting on that fence feels?;)

    Did he offer anything other than the very very trite expression
    "cracks in the armor"? :confused:
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2006
  3. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Come on now, the guy is hedging. Like everyone-else out there.

    On the afternoon blitz yesterday both Shien and Wilcox hedged. Saying that the Patriots will likely go to the play-offs then see what will happen.

    The fact of the matter is, despite thier personal opinion which is that Brady is trouble with the WR leaving. They don't want to say it, lest they be proven totally wrong come January.

    None of these guys is going to make a statement that they can easily be proved wrong about. (Not that they would accept that they are wrong anyway.)
     
  4. ilduce06410

    ilduce06410 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    BB/SP shoulda redone his deal after the SB MVP year.

    this stuff heppens when p-layers get into their walk year. it happened with johnny damon. same with Vinatraitor. now the twig. they offer deals that they know the players won't accept. IMO when teams dont lock up their top players before the walk year, it means they don't WANT to re-sign them.
    why pass on DB, i don't know.
    but i think they'd already decided.
    that 3-year, $18.5 offer was a good offer, but they had to have known all along that DB wouldn't sign for that.
     
  5. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    He is absolutely correct in his assesment. Jackson has showed ZERO and there are a lot of question marks in regards to the passing game. Nobody knows what to expect against the Jets but it's not hard to imagine Brady holding the ball looking looking looking and then getting sacked. I can see it clearly after watching last weeks game. Let's hope that isn't the case against the Jets.
     
  6. PlattsFan

    PlattsFan On the Game Day Roster

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    These guys are just afraid that Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli are a lot smarter than they are (they are) and that the Pats will be totally vindicated in the end (TBD).

    Personally, I think Belichick/Pioli did get caught a little short-handed, but no one's perfect. They are sort of relying on a few things going right and almost nothing going wrong to have a competent receiving corps, and that's not usually the way they do things. I'd say there's a decent chance it'll all turn out very well and the Pats are as strong as ever (the D is much better than the national pundits seem to think), but we can't be sure. And I don't think the WR situation is as they planned. (please, people, no one mention any Seahawk receivers!)

    Ooooo, now I'm on the fence ... but, hey! We just can't know how it'll turn out.
     
  7. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Re: BB/SP shoulda redone his deal after the SB MVP year.

    I keep hearing this one. That the Patriots should have redone the deal earlier.

    How much earlier is neccesary? He signed a five year deal, should they have redone the deal when it was only half over? Before he had even played a full season? I'm not sure wether or not it would have helped to give him a new contract instead of a contract extention. But to say they are not trying to get the deal done before a guy is a FA is a bit of a misnomer.
     
  8. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Good stuff. I just have two issues:

    1) If either David Thomas or Garret Mills catches 30-40 balls this year, I will dance down my street naked. Ben Watson, in his breakout year last year, caught 29.

    2) Caldwell looked good and aggressive in Game One - - I wouldn't overlook him (although for many on this board in PS, it was in vogue).
     
  9. Mosi Moose

    Mosi Moose On the Game Day Roster

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    Except Mike Greenberg--who has outright stated that the Dynasty is over. I like him a lot--but, even wishful thinking as a Jets fan, he should have hedged himself. He did however say that if the Pats went 12-4 and deep into the playoffs, he'll call BB the best coach in any sport--maybe ever.
     
  10. R_T26

    R_T26 Banned

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    Why does the media have to kiss the Pats butt. as an outsider i can understand why they would have questions. You cant just assume all these other guys are going to step up. Im sick of hearing about david thomas etc. They need to get it more into watson's hand, before we even start thinking about the 3rd TE. You cant have blind faith in sports. And must realize this team has been awful in FA the last 2 years, and their 2004 draft has basically been useless except for 2 guys. Not every move works out great. So before getting on analysts for questioning the Pats, maybe think that their are reasons behind it.
     
  11. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    #12 Jersey

    They don't "have to kiss the Pats butt." However, you'd think somewhere along the line, someone would realize that basically the same *&^% gets said every year, and it almost always turns out to be wrong. Just plug in a few different names.
     
  12. brady2brown

    brady2brown On the Game Day Roster

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    Revisionism at its worse.

    Everybody is excited about drafting Jackson because he was one of the best if not the best WR in the draft. Why now is he not to be considered as part of the team? Because he got hurt he will never recover from a HAMMY?

    Were you around in 2002? Do you remember the reaction to drafting Branch? No one was excited. People were either disappointed or said, Who dat? You should be about a zillion times more hopeful about Jackson this year than you were about Branch in 2002.

    Jackson was a top draft pick and it is absolute nonsense to think he will not be a major part of the offense.

    There is always a chance he might not make it, but there is a much much greater chance he will do just fine.
     
  13. FSUPatsFan

    FSUPatsFan Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Here's what I don't understand. The media says that Pats are done because of all of their losses. OTOH they say the Colts are the best team in the league, when their losses are very comparable to the Pats.

    Pats Losses:
    Branch-#1 WR. Never had 100 catches or 1000 yds. Plays good in superbowls. Probably a #2 reciever on other teams.

    McGinnest-LB in the twiglight of his career. Role player with 57 tackles and 6 sacks last year. Not expected to improve this season.

    Vinatieri-Best clutch kicker ever. An average kicker otherwise. Not great leg strength. Plus, he's only a kicker.

    Colts Losses:
    James-Arguably the best RB in the game. Still has good years ahead of him. Great at picking up blitzes and a virtual lock for a 1300 yd season.

    David Thornton-LB in the prime of his career. Had a solid season last year with 75 tackles, 2 sacks, and 2 FF.

    Larry Tripplett-Solid DT.

    Vanderjagt-Complete opposite of vinatieri. Solid in the regular season. chokes in the cluth. Most accurate kicker of all time. But still only a kicker.

    I don't get it. We let our free agents go because they were old, wanted too much money, and probably have their best years behind them. We didn't lose branch for nothing. We got a #1 out of him. The colts on the other hand lost guys that still probably had good years left in them.

    Also, the Colts were remarkably lucky with injuries last year, while the pats were terribly unlucky. If this balances out this season, why shouldn't the Pats be better?

    Not to mention, I think we drafted a lot better than the Colts. Everyone knows Polian really wanted Maroney and was furious when the Pats drafted him. Chad Jackson should contibute if he's healthy.

    The fact is, the Colts running game has suffered greatly with the loss of James and that can only make Peyton worse. I don't see that defense being any better. They may have gotten rid of a choking kicker, but they still have a choking qb.
     
  14. Johnny Z

    Johnny Z Practice Squad Player

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    The history of WRs taken in the first round is not that good - mostly because WR attributes do not drive what puts WRs in the 1st round.

    Size and speed drive what puts WRs in the first round. Size and speed are marginal WR attributes. Route running skills and catching skills are WR attributes. Coming out of college, Deion Branch had amazing route running skills and solid pass catching skills. He's small and his speed was not that hot.

    Jackson is a size-and-speed prospect. It doesn't mean he will fail, but a bunch of them have become marginal contributors at best:

    Javon Walker (one good year; three well-below average years)
    Ashlie Lelie
    Jabar Gaffney
    Roy Williams
    Mike Williams
    Charles Rogers
    Bryant Johnson
    David Terrell
    Koren Robinson
    Rod Gardner
    Plaxico Burress
    Sylvester Morris
    Michael Jenkins
    Rashaun Woods

    These players have hurt their teams. Fans and GMs sit around fantasizing about all that size and speed tearing up the NFL. Usually it just tears up their chances.
     
  15. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    They do not have to kiss their butt. However it would be nice if they said something that made sense. Or accurate. The Patriots let everyone go, they won't pay players what they are worth, can the Patriots win without (insert name here), Brady regrets not taking more money, Brady's worst fear comes to fruition, players in the locker room devasted over Deion... etc. All statements that hype certain detials while ignoring others.

    Personally, I figure the problem is a large percentage of the current sports TV media is made up former players. Therefore in thier eyes, players are rarely wrong. In player vs management they are going to back the player. (One of the most agregious being Keyshawn J. who in his radio program was defending Jerry Porters actions.)

    Add in the fact that media is a rating driven enterprise. They need to say something that will stir things up. If they were talking about the Patriots o-line or what type of schemes would better fit shorter passing, who would tune in? Patriots football fans only. That stuff is dry to the ordinary fan. So they stir things up, why do you think they had Limbaugh on ESPN for a time.

    Which is why not only to they overhype the sentional aspects, pit management and players in death struggles, and then in the end hedge, because none of them have a better clue then you or me how this going to come out.
     

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