Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ctpatsfan77, Dec 24, 2008.
From the Eagle-Tribune:
Quite a bit more there.
We're not getting a first round pick for Cassel. I think the most we'll get is a second rounder for Matty. That pick is fine by me. Give us an extra second round pick (preferably a high one) so we can get another jump start on rebuilding this defense for the future. I would be curious to see if Jaworski or any other ex-quarterback-now-analyst said that about Derek Anderson last year.
Just to be clear, Jaworski was NOT saying he would trade a first for Cassel. What he said was, if he were a GM looking to use a first-round draft pick on a QB, he'd try to land Cassel instead.
i think as the season has rolled along, it has become clearer and clearer that we will either have Matt Cassel on our roster next year OR will be receiving a first round pick as compensation for him.
i think it was split here on whether or not that was going to happen. i always believed wed get a top pick for him if he played well. those who didnt think we would, i definitely understand their thought process at the time. I dont think any of us predicted how good Matty would be, i mean, how could we have?
if he could do the unimagineable and lead us far into the playoffs, i can see even more than 1st round compensation. maybe a 3rd also. i mean, what if he is a super bowl winning QB? what would a team give for that?
And people say we can't draft offense. Which makes me think... maybe we should trade all those 1st and 2nd rounders planned on taking an offensive player for 6th and 7th rounders and we should be fine
But seriously to be able to draft 2 guys as good as Brady and Cassel in the last 2 rounds is nothing short of amazing.
I understand what you are saying but there are still not a lot of teams that would give that for Cassel. Most teams would look at him and immediately point to our receiving corps saying "yeah he's a good QB but the Pats corps of receivers might have made him look better than he really is". That's not my opinion, just the opinion that may be shared by some coaches (and a lot of idiot fans).
Yup- Culpepper will serve as a cautionary tale that will hurt Cassel's value a bit.
2004 (his last season with Moss):
Record: 8-8 YPG: 295 TD/INT: 39/11
2005 (The 7 games he started before his knee was blown out):
Record: 2-5 YPG: 223 TD/INT: 6/12
Moss has a long history of making crappy QBs look good, and decent QBs look awesome. Culpepper and Cunningham looked like MVP candidates, and even Jeff George had a great year throwing to him. That said, I think that Cassel really is a good quarterback, and I'm confident that other teams will agree, but that, plus having Welker as the best slot receiver in the league, could pretty easily be sufficient to push him out of first-rounder territory.
The Cowboys acquired WR Roy Williams from the Lions and gave up a 1st, 3rd and 6th Rd picks this year and a 7th in 2010 to get him and we won't get a 1st for a QB whose played as well as Matt Cassel has?? I think a 1st is a definite and the Pats should demand more.
Also, last year the Vikings acquired Jared Allen for a 1st and two 3rd's along with a swap of 6's from the Chiers. Allen was a tagged franchise player by the Chiefs.
This is what Lombardi wrote about Cassel in November and I believe he has better insights in to what other NFL execs would be thinking like: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/186541-lombardi-cassel.html
I've changed my opinion. Its not just a couple good games, the fluke factor has been eliminated IMO. He's shown he has the temperament. He needs to work on his longer passes, but he has the arm, so he'll do it.
Still wondering about the franchise tag and trade. can the league invalidate it based on our sincerity? If so, how?
The question of what will be gotten for Cassel is probably going to depend upon how many teams get into a bidding war after looking at what's probably going to be a very pedestrian quarterback class, especially if the underclassmen don't come out. I don't think that a first rounder, or even a first rounder plus, is out of the question, given what was reportedly offered for Anderson after last season.
Obviously, a second and a player, or some other deal is possible.
I agree with Jaworski, if I'm a GM, why buy a pig in a poke? You're also paying for the experience with a great mentor and coach.
In addition to Jared Allen, DT Corey Williams was also traded after being franchised. I don't see any way the NFL can prohibit the Pats from deisgnating Cassel a franchise player if they so choose. The player's association ageed to the franchise tag back in 1993 and again when the cba was most recently renewed in 2006. The league would be setting a bad precedent if they ever invalidated a franchise tag. The more likely scenario is the case heading to an arbitrator at the request of the player and his agent in a case where they felt that the Pats weren't negotiating in good faith but I don't see that happening. Cassel is currently making around $520K and he is on verge of making millions because of the coaches and a team who developed him and took a chance on him even though he hadn't played a down since high school.
I know the franchise tag usually isn't something that makes players or their agents happy but it's part of the process of free agency as currently negotiated. It does limit player's options on the open market and gives most, not all, of the negotiating control to the team, which is what the Pats should be looking for so Cassel doesn't wind up with a divisional rival or they lose him for less compensation then he is worth in a QB driven league.
i cant wait for dabruinz to come on this thread and tells us exactly what the patriots will do after Belichek and Pioli consult with him first and get his approval
So you got wrecked in a debate or two with guy then, huh? Enjoy having to get your posts approved before you make them.
Cassel is worth a 1st plus.
If or when he is traded, I hope the picks are in THIS year's draft. It is shaping up to be a lollapalooza as some 70 underclassmen, especially the potential 2010 #1s, are contemplating coming out to avoid a possible rookie cap.
So this draft may have 1st round talent deep into the second round! :singing::singing:
But to play Devil's advocate--how many perfect/near perfect passes have the receivers just botched on their end? If the receivers played as well as they had last year, Cassel's TD/INT numbers would be much closer to 30/3 than 21/12.
Welker's another issue, but I'll save that for a separate thread.
Is it against league rules for a team to make an offer for Cassel in
February before FA starts?
If not maybe a team will tell PATs: you franchise him and here's
what our offer will be.
With so many teams needing a QB like Cassel if it is a legal thing to do
isn't it very likely a deal will be done before FA even starts?
The Falcons received great picks for Matt Schaub who started only a couple of games his entire career before he was traded to the Texans. Cassel is better or just as good as this guy and has started alot more games, we should get just as much or more considering what the Falcons got for Schaub.
Excellent point about the draft. I believe the picks will be in this year's draft.
Valid point, definitely. I'm not sure that a lot of GMs in the league will see it that way, though. They're far more likely to say "well, he had Moss and Welker" than "well, he had Moss and Welker, but they did drop some passes...". I also think that, at some point, the increase in drops has to be attributed, at least partially, to Cassel. Not to say that Cassel isn't a really good, young QB- he just doesn't necessarily have Brady's accuracy or touch (then again, nobody else does either).
haha, i definitely did not get wrecked, you can make that decision for yourself if you want to waste your time reading one of the draft threads
i made him aware of the fact that he definitely thinks he knows more than he actually does. he comments on everyone's posts, i think he did that to one or two of mine. i mean, the guys trying to give me lessons on how to earn respect when he comments on every single person's posts every single day. obviously he doesnt know what he is talking about. its a weak routine but apparently his m.o.
he rated Long Snapper as the teams #4 priority in the offseason. thats really all you probably need to know
There's some sort of regulation, I saw it posted here.
I can't see how its enforceable, though. Maybe someone recalls it.
Whoa. You say let's be clear and then you misquote Jaws from your own post to make it sound like he wouldn't trade a first for Matt. He didn't say land. He was asked if he give a first round pick for Cassel and he said, "Absolutely." He had the proviso that he would if he were going to use a first round pick on a drafted QB. His point was that for the first round pick you get a seasoned QB, not a rookie.
Not that we are going to franchise Cassel, but Jaws thinks he is worth a first round pick and said so.
There are five-six teams in the NFL this year who just missed the playoffs due to poor QB play. Their GMs might be more generous that you.
AFAIK, there is no provision in the CBA that requires a team to make any effort to sign a tagged player to a long-term contract.
Perhaps, but as we've seen with SF, there's some value to taking a team's 1st rounder in the next draft - especially with 2010 currently looking to be uncapped.
Mea culpa. It's rare that I make a mistake like that.
Well, medium-rare. opcorn:
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