Ron Brace hypothetical

[TealSox]

Is this a trick question? Ron Brace would stay inside and Wilfork would be allowed to move along the line to create mismatches and cause havoc. He has a DE background, no? He is far more athletic if i remember right too.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Yes.

Also future trade bait, perhaps. If we resign Wilfork, there are few things more valuable than a possible NT starter. They are born, not made. Well, maybe redesigned with a lot of cheeseburgers.

Just as long as he's not some effete girly mon snob asking for Djon mustard, no ketchup and arugula and such with them burgiz

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I agree.

Given the slot where he was taken, and the availability of more athletic types at other positions of perceived need or interest, there must be something there that we don't see or are unaware of.

And while the Pats and 2nd round picks haven't exactly gone together like soup and sandwich (!), how often does BB get it wrong with a guy like this at a position akin to this?

Not often. Marquise Hill comes to mind though.

 

[mgteich]

Let's be clear. There were 45 players who were slower than 5.32, only 45 (of the 750 players list by CBSdraftscout). Only two played defense, the rest were offensive linemen. One was the 58th rated DT, undrafted Dennis Marsh from Norfolk State, timed at 5.43. The other was the #4 rated DT Brace, timed at 5.48.

Make no mistake, a 40 time at the combine of 5.48 is an extraordinary time. No drafted defensive player drafted came with .15 seconds of him.

I may have missed something here but why are opinions being gauged on Brace's times versus all DT's. I realize they're all big dudes but wouldn't it make a lot more sense to compare him to NT's outside of Raji, who was a beast and accordingly went in the top 10. I don't really see the value of combine speed numbers when comparing a 2-gap 3-4 NT to the kind of 3-technique pass-rushers that you see in a lot of 4-3's.

How many races did Ted Washington win?

In any case, I trust the Patriots' strength and conditioning coaches to help Brace's speed numbers over the summer and next couple seasons.

 

[patchick]

Just as long as he's not some effete girly mon snob asking for Djon mustard, no ketchup and arugula and such with them burgiz

The only problem with arugula is that Americans call it that. If we could just agree to call it "rocket" like the Brits, it would be manly enough for any lineman. (And faster than Ron Brace! )

 

[mmasterkillah]

Brace can give Vince a break, and Vince has the ability to be a stud DE in the 3-4 as well.

 

[mayoclinic]

Is this a trick question? Ron Brace would stay inside and Wilfork would be allowed to move along the line to create mismatches and cause havoc. He has a DE background, no? He is far more athletic if i remember right too.

No, not a trick question. Just me overlooking the obvious. I'm so used to Vince being the NT that the idea of Brace playing NT and Vince moving outside never really occurred to me. Interesting thought.

It's interesting that CPF and I both had exactly the same observations watching film of Brace. My comments were:

That's what I thought too. Then I went back and watched some film, and he seemed much more athletic and disruptive on film than he looked at the combine. I saw several plays where he got good penetration into the backfield and broke down the pass protection.

CPF Noted:

Well after we drafted him I went back to watch some more film of him and Raji working the middle and wow those to were dominate together. I hope that Wilfork and him can do the same thing for us when we go with a 4 man front at times. While watching tape I noticed that he was more athletic then I first though making plays in the backfield and hitting a few gaps. Now trust me when you are paired inside with another great DT you do get some one on one match ups even if you are playing the NT in the 4-3. I was just surprised as I really thought he was going to be strictly a NT for us but do see him bumping out on a guard at times but I would rather have Wilfork do that and keep Brace anchoring the middle pushing the pocket.

I guess my question is that if we are drafting Brace only as a widebody NT allowing us to move Wilfork around, why couldn't we have done that with one of the NTs available later in the draft and then used #40 on someone else? A lot of people thought that Brace might even sneak into the late 1st round. Is it just that people are so desperate for a big body in the middle?

I would never expect Brace to be a pass rushing demon. But neither is Ngata. I'll be curious to see how BB ends up using him, and whether he shows some of the athleticism which I glimpsed on tape compared to the slow as molasses performances at the combine and at his pro day.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

No, not a trick question. Just me overlooking the obvious. I'm so used to Vince being the NT that the idea of Brace playing NT and Vince moving outside never really occurred to me. Interesting thought.

**harumph** Thanks for reading my Day One analysis. :beatingcoming:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The only problem with arugula is that Americans call it that. If we could just agree to call it "rocket" like the Brits, it would be manly enough for any lineman. (And faster than Ron Brace! )

"Rocket or Arugula seed has been used as an ingredient in aphrodisiac concoctions dating back to the first century, AD. (Cambridge World History of Food)." So much for all those manly blue pill commercials...and I'd think there'd be some who'd prefer the slower pace of a Ron Brace 40 to faster times if this aspect of arugula were to be considered.

 

[mayoclinic]

**harumph** Thanks for reading my Day One analysis. :beatingcoming:

Do you have a link? I may have read it, it just may be my early onset Alzheimer's kicking in.

 

[patchick]

I guess my question is that if we are drafting Brace only as a widebody NT allowing us to move Wilfork around, why couldn't we have done that with one of the NTs available later in the draft and then used #40 on someone else?

I think you may undervaluing "only a widebody NT." It's a tough position to fill, and Brace was a clear cut above any of the other candidates. Martin's a physically gifted roll of the dice, less experienced at football than Sebastian Vollmer. Baker's a scary dude. Knighton's simply not that good, and elevated by the constant need for big men. Who else?

 

[mayoclinic]

I think you may undervaluing "only a widebody NT." It's a tough position to fill, and Brace was a clear cut above any of the other candidates. Martin's a physically gifted roll of the dice, less experienced at football than Sebastian Vollmer. Baker's a scary dude. Knighton's simply not that good, and elevated by the constant need for big men. Who else?

Sammie Lee Hill and Dorrell Scott. Scott went #103 to the Rams and Hill #115 to the Lions.

You may be right. But I was hoping that if we used a pretty high pick (#40) on Brace that BB saw more in him than just a "widebody NT" backup/insurance for Wilfork, or as trade value. Particularly given that we moved up to #40 to get him, suggests that BB saw considerable value in him. I prefer to hope that he's closer to the 2nd round move up to get Matt Light than the move up to get Bethel Johnson.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Particularly given that we moved up to #40 to get him, suggests that BB saw considerable value in him. I prefer to hope that he's closer to the 2nd round move up to get Matt Light than the move up to get Bethel Johnson.

Brace is already a better value than BJ because he fits the 300 lb rare body rule. I do hope that he is more athletic than he times though. Those combine times were brutal. But BB has seen the film on this guy. I think he sees a powerful wide body guy akin to Keith Traylor or Ted Washington.

 

[livinginthe past]

Quoting 40 yard dash times for a DT/NT is a sign of a world gone mad - or at least a world where bouffant haired 'draft guru's' have had way too much impact.

Getting over excited about 0.1sec in a WR is absurd enough without translating the same statistic into so called anaylsis for players who will more often than not be caught up in a battle of strength/mental agility and concentration.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Do you have a link? I may have read it, it just may be my early onset Alzheimer's kicking in.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/232876-grade-our-draft.html#post1360900

 

[mayoclinic]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/232876-grade-our-draft.html#post1360900

Thanks. Not sure I ever read it.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thanks. Not sure I ever read it.

:enranged: :banned:

 

[mgteich]

As you said in a previous post, Wilfork is also only a widebody NT. This is the most valuable position in our defense. A backup is important as well as having two for short yeardage and goalline situations. Perhaps you valued Sammie Lee Hill and Dorrell Scott almost as much. I don't think the patriots and other teams needing a NT agreed with your assessment. I think a wide-body who can play next to Wilfork, and substitute for him as needed, was sufficient for Belichick.

Sammie Lee Hill and Dorrell Scott. Scott went #103 to the Rams and Hill #115 to the Lions.

You may be right. But I was hoping that if we used a pretty high pick (#40) on Brace that BB saw more in him than just a "widebody NT" backup/insurance for Wilfork, or as trade value. Particularly given that we moved up to #40 to get him, suggests that BB saw considerable value in him. I prefer to hope that he's closer to the 2nd round move up to get Matt Light than the move up to get Bethel Johnson.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I can see us using a lot more 4-3 sets, but I don't think Wilfork would be in on those sets. I could see us having Crable, Taylor/Peppers (if we acquire either) whoever is our best Pass rusher at one end and Seymour/Warren, Brace in the middle. Mayo Thomas and Woods would probably be our LB's. Could you imagine if we made a deal with the Ravens to acquire Suggs (Two seconds and Green). Then we signed Taylor. We would then have Taylor and Suggs at DE. Seymour/warren and Brace at DT. Mayo Thomas and Woods at LB. Bodden and Springs/Butler at CB and Merriweather and Chung/Sanders at S. Then in our Base 3-4, We could go with our standard front 3 (Seymour, Wilfork/Brace, Warren), Suggs and Taylor on the Outside and Thomas Mayo on the inside, same secondary as above.

 

[RayClay]

Just as long as he's not some effete girly mon snob asking for Djon mustard, no ketchup and arugula and such with them burgiz

Well, foie gras is pretty fattening. I don't know the guy, but he needs calories.