Ron Brace at LDE for AM walkthrough

[Kontradiction]

Re: Ron Brace at LDE or walkthrough

Am I right in remembering there were high hopes for this guy last year? It's all a little fuzzy, but I thought he was likeliest to be a backup at NT. Vinsurance or what-have-you.

Yeah, Brace was pretty much insurance in case a contract with Wilfork fell through. Not sure why, but a lot of people here didn't seem to understand that. Regardless, though, Brace was taking substantial reps with the ones in mini-camp and Damione Lewis didn't look all that great against the run in the first preseason game. BB is probably taking a long hard look at what we have before he decides to take a look around the league.

 

[stinkypete]

Brace could fit in as a DE in short yardage situations. The ends in the Patriots system have traditionally been near nose tackles themselves, just with a greater athleticism. In a short yardage, running or quick pass situation, the NT skill set is all that is needed at LDE.

Brace at DE manes sense to me. My understanding is that Gerrard Warren has been a decent pass rushing tackle but a liability in the running game (recall some of the awful run defenses fielded recently in Denver and Oakland). What I see developing here, consistent to the structure of the linebackers and defensive backs, is a fluid line of moving parts built around a consistent anchor, in this case Wilfork.

This makes me uneasy, spoiled after years of a rock solid consistent line. It's a similar feeling to that which came with the dissolution of the outside linebackers.

 

[Garbanza]

Good news. Brace is back. With the loss of Warren, there is room and opportunity. Can he seize it?

What everyone forgets is that most NTs are three year projects before they are productive. Only the super stars, do it by the end of their first season.

Please! They guy showed up out of shape and it took him how long to pass the conditioning test? Know what that tells me? He's lazy, uncommitted and immature. I expect nothing from him.

 

[Rob0729]

Please! They guy showed up out of shape and it took him how long to pass the conditioning test? Know what that tells me? He's lazy, uncommitted and immature. I expect nothing from him.

We don't really know if Brace failed the conditioning test because he was out of shape. Nick Casaro allowed to a medical issue that held him out. Word washe was in far better shape in minicamp this year than he was all of last year.

Typically if a play fails the conditioning test due to being out of shape, he is on the field in a day or two. I think it is unfair to bash the guy when we don't know why he failed the test especially reports have it to do with medical issue.

 

[mgteich]

Brace has satisfied the coaches and is back on track widening his skill set by getting reps at DE, as he did earlier in minicamp. He was drafted as a backup NT, with the hope that he might also be a DT in short yardage or even an emergency DE against the run.

The bottom line is that nose tackles are very slow (and brace is the slowest) and have trouble passing conditioning tests. They also take awhile to learn the system. Even Wilfork only shared time with Traylor during his first season.

Sadly for many, Brace is performing exactly as expected. He did start once late in the season in place of Wilfork and did OK. He figures to be inactive this season as the backup NT. The open question is whether he has developed well enough to be useful in case of injuries at other positions.

Some of us thought that #40 was way too high a cost for a backup NT that will take a couple of years to develop. That issue is in the past. When Brace was picked at #40 or #130 or #230, he is on the team now and is a developing backup NT. Some would rather keep Weston. Well, Weston will show what he can, and then will likely end up on the Practrice Squad.

 

[Rob0729]

Brace has satisfied the coaches and is back on track widening his skill set by getting reps at DE, as he did earlier in minicamp. He was drafted as a backup NT, with the hope that he might also be a DT in short yardage or even an emergency DE against the run.

The bottom line is that nose tackles are very slow (and brace is the slowest) and have trouble passing conditioning tests. They also take awhile to learn the system. Even Wilfork only shared time with Traylor during his first season.

Sadly for many, Brace is performing exactly as expected. He did start once late in the season in place of Wilfork and did OK. He figures to be inactive this season as the backup NT. The open question is whether he has developed well enough to be useful in case of injuries at other positions.

Some of us thought that #40 was way too high a cost for a backup NT that will take a couple of years to develop. That issue is in the past. When Brace was picked at #40 or #130 or #230, he is on the team now and is a developing backup NT. Some would rather keep Weston. Well, Weston will show what he can, and then will likely end up on the Practrice Squad.

So after one practice, we have already deemed him inactive all season? Considering he played LDE today with the second team, he still has a chance to make the active roster.

The fact that his practice was the first practice after the first preseason game, his missing most of camp was injury related over conditioning. The Pats have a history of holding out injured players until two a days are over which means after the first preseason game.

 

[RayClay]

Some of us thought that #40 was way too high a cost for a backup NT that will take a couple of years to develop. That issue is in the past. When Brace was picked at #40 or #130 or #230, he is on the team now and is a developing backup NT. Some would rather keep Weston. Well, Weston will show what he can, and then will likely end up on the Practrice Squad.

If Brace can play, I expect him to be used as much as anyone other than the top four. Rumors of failed tests and "cramps" led me to believe he was headed for a cut.

If he's here to play, he should have some opportunities.

Anything about 7th round types on my part was just speculation in the case that Brace were cut. Nobody likely knows anything about that crowd unless you grew up in their neighborhood.

 

[mgteich]

Warren, Wilfork, Wright, Lewis
======================

So, what you are saying is that you would expect Brace to be used as much as Pryor, presuming they both make the roster. I only see the normal six on the roster, with only thr top four getting a significant number of reps. Do you disagree?

If Brace can play, I expect him to be used as much as anyone other than the top four. Rumors of failed tests and "cramps" led me to believe he was headed for a cut.

If he's here to play, he should have some opportunities.

Anything about 7th round types on my part was just speculation in the case that Brace were cut. Nobody likely knows anything about that crowd unless you grew up in their neighborhood.

 

[The_Riddler]

Brace, Big Vince and GWarren would suit me just fine, 3 big physical run stuffers to free up Mayo and Spikes.

I still have faith in Brace, I thought he improved as that Buffalo game went on, I know he got his arse blownout on the first few series, but he got himself together and remained stoubt in there. Ron Brace will be a player if he stays healthy. Now he just needs to get his old number back

 

[mgteich]

If Brace is ready for play with the 1's as you suggest with Vince and Warren, I think I'd rather have Vince at DE. Brace would be the slowest DE in the entire league.

Brace, Big Vince and GWarren would suit me just fine, 3 big physical run stuffers to free up Mayo and Spikes.

I still have faith in Brace, I thought he improved as that Buffalo game went on, I know he got his arse blownout on the first few series, but he got himself together and remained stoubt in there. Ron Brace will be a player if he stays healthy. Now he just needs to get his old number back

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

Brace anywhere on the line will result in an even worse pass rush than the Pats had last year.

 

[Kontradiction]

Brace anywhere on the line will result in an even worse pass rush than the Pats had last year.

That's why we'd be looking at playing him only on running downs. :bricks:

 

[RayClay]

Warren, Wilfork, Wright, Lewis
======================

So, what you are saying is that you would expect Brace to be used as much as Pryor, presuming they both make the roster. I only see the normal six on the roster, with only thr top four getting a significant number of reps. Do you disagree?

I like Pryor better but yes, in year two, if he can play Brace fits our defense better than Pryor at both LDE and NT. If we run a lot of defenses where we use two tackles, Pryor might play more.

Pryor is made for a 4-3. Says so himself (jmt57 DL thread).

But when it comes to pass-rush moves, Pryor looks back at other big men who fit his profile just a little bit more.

“I’ll normally pull out some old films of Warren Sapp and some of the great guys that pass-rush and are quick and explosive… like myself,” Pryor said, cracking himself up at his own joke. “I can’t watch Vince because I’m not big like V, I’m not as strong as V. You got to watch guys (like you).”

If Brace can play there are opportunities in our base defense. I have my doubts if he can play. Since basically every DL player we have could play in any looks with two tackles, Pryor needs to be better than Brace to get time.

I only see the normal six on the roster, with only thr top four getting a significant number of reps. Do you disagree?

I agree, no matter what defense we are in those four are more likely than any other linemen to play.

I do think your more likely to keep extra in times of uncertainty and they are definitely uncertain. In other words, Warren Wilfork and Seymour, you don't need more than six total. with all the question marks, maybe they keep 7, if there are any reasons to. It all depends on the players, not the numbers.

 

[Ungeheuer]

Brace anywhere on the line will result in an even worse pass rush than the Pats had last year.

Well, I don't think that's what they need him for. They need someone stout to keep linemen off the linebackers on first and second down. The Pats have plenty of speed and tackling behind the line -- what they really need is some beef across the line.

Brace has a nose tackle body for sure, but he is a little longer-armed and taller than some NTs. If he can play at all, a Wilfork/G. Warren/Brace line at the very least would be a ton of mass to deal with. I don't see too many teams dealing with that and having much push left in them by the fourth quarter.

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

That's why we'd be looking at playing him only on running downs. :bricks:

So the offense will simply audible a pass, that's the problem with not having 3 down players anymore.

 

[RayClay]

So the offense will simply audible a pass, that's the problem with not having 3 down players anymore.

You understand we have 4 linebackers in our base defense and they are the primary pass rushers, not the DL?

 

[condon84]

So the offense will simply audible a pass, that's the problem with not having 3 down players anymore.

I remember QBs audible to pass when they saw Wilfork last year during 4th quarters and late 3rd quarters of games.

 

[Kontradiction]

So the offense will simply audible a pass, that's the problem with not having 3 down players anymore.

You do realize that the defensive lineman in a two gapping 3-4 are not responsible for the pass rush, right? In the event that the offense audibles on every single down that Brace is in there, we will hope that he holds up two blockers at the line of scrimmage (his primary job on passing plays) and hope that the OLB can provide a pass rush behind him.

 

[RayClay]

I remember QBs audible to pass when they saw Wilfork last year during 4th quarters and late 3rd quarters of games.

He used to play cornerback in high school, but he's slowed down. They shouldn't sub him anywhere in the secondary except safety now.

 

[Kontradiction]

He used to play cornerback in high school, but he's slowed down. They shouldn't sub him anywhere in the secondary except safety now.

Didn't Wilfork also letter on his high school's basketball team?