PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Ron Borges: Patriots face identity crisis - Reminiscent of ‘soft’ Colts teams


Status
Not open for further replies.
I didn't read the article, but I've heard that argument before - possibly from Borges himself - that the Pats have gone soft, turning into the old Colts, etc.
.


You read it HERE several weeks back, on this forum:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...les-2001-2009-a.html?highlight=Colts+Patriots


http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...2003-2004-colts.html?highlight=Colts+Patriots


Wouldn't be surprised if Borges is just trolling various forums these days for more material to lift.
 
Last edited:
You read it HERE several weeks back, on this forum:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...les-2001-2009-a.html?highlight=Colts+Patriots



Wouldn't be surprised if Borges is just trolling various forums these days for more material to lift.
Yeah, I knew there had been a discussion on that topic here recently. I figured I'd give Borges the benefit of the doubt and suggest he was recycling his own material - but your theory of him using messageboards for columns wouldn't surprise me in the least.
 
If the Patriots lose tonight I will have absolutely no confidence that they can get into the playoffs and beat the better teams...this team has beaten creampuffs all year (yes,Baltimore and Atlanta are far from Elite) so they need to not only win, but win convinsingly and it could go a long way to success when the playoffs start and the better teams are all that is left,this game is a must to win,not for the playoffs but for confidence.

Let me know who the '07 Giants and '05 Steelers beat in the regular season that made them world beaters going into the playoffs
 
I agree somewhat with the crux of your points maverick, but not the philosophy behind your arguments. When the Colts have sustained play-off success, then the role reversals will be more easily argued.
 
I understand Ron Borges has strong biased against the Patriots, but he brings up an interesting point in regard to how the Colts are winning like the Patriots from the super bowl years. He also questions if the Patriots have become what the Colts were (i.e soft team)

Patriots face identity crisis - BostonHerald.com

Your thoughts ?

I don't disagree with him. Although I wouldn't dare compare the Colts with the old Pats. I hate the spread offense. No matter how many flashy points we score. Even if we don't have the personnel for a stifling defense. There's more than one way to keep the other guys from scoring. Give me a dink and dunk, power running, ball control offense with the threat of a Randy Moss fly pattern if the defense creeps up.

The "greatest show on turf" wasn't as dominant as it's cracked up to be.
 
Haven't read the article yet, but it already has 208 comments.

I'd say he's doing his job very well.
 
2006: If the refs don't get their grimy fingerprints all over that game, the Pats win 4 out of 6. Or even if they just call the game the same on both sides of the ball, the Pats win.

2007: If Asante Samuel holds on to a gimme INT, the Pats go down as the GOAT! If Asante doesn't abandon Tyree, same result. If TfB & the coaches manage the final possession better, they at least get to OT.

2008: 11-5 with a backup QB... enough said.

2009: 7-3 with a QB coming off major surgery and a D that ranks as highly as it does with a host of new faces? WTF is he talking about. Take away the bogus PI, the bad 4th down spot, or have TfB pass to Welker and the Pats are the class of the AFC.

I don't care what anyone says, the rules benefit the passing teams these days, and for some reason, they REALLY benefit a Peyton Manning passing team.

The Pats have 3 losses by a combined 11 points, but their ceiling is higher.
Compare that with the Colts. Can they keep getting away with late game heroics? Can they keep getting ALL the calls? (Maybe) Can they keep hoping RBs fumble on the goal line?

The Pats can look forward to:
Possibly having a healthy o-line.
Possibly having their 3 headed rushing attack back for the stretch run.
Possibly having the d-line rotation back at full strength.
Possibly having more game reps for their budding WRs like Stanbeck, Edelman, etc.
 
I agree with the main premise. They are all offense and a tad soft. Last year's 3rd down vs Favre, their inability in years to get off the field when needed...

They are a very good team with a shot. They are not the 03-04 Pats... unless they show me something soon. I am still hopeful things can/will turn around, but they are like the early decade Colts in quite a few ways.
 
2006: If the refs don't get their grimy fingerprints all over that game, the Pats win 4 out of 6. Or even if they just call the game the same on both sides of the ball, the Pats win.

2007: If Asante Samuel holds on to a gimme INT, the Pats go down as the GOAT! If Asante doesn't abandon Tyree, same result. If TfB & the coaches manage the final possession better, they at least get to OT.

2008: 11-5 with a backup QB... enough said.

2009: 7-3 with a QB coming off major surgery and a D that ranks as highly as it does with a host of new faces? WTF is he talking about. Take away the bogus PI, the bad 4th down spot, or have TfB pass to Welker and the Pats are the class of the AFC.

I don't care what anyone says, the rules benefit the passing teams these days, and for some reason, they REALLY benefit a Peyton Manning passing team.

The Pats have 3 losses by a combined 11 points, but their ceiling is higher.
Compare that with the Colts. Can they keep getting away with late game heroics? Can they keep getting ALL the calls? (Maybe) Can they keep hoping RBs fumble on the goal line?

The Pats can look forward to:
Possibly having a healthy o-line.
Possibly having their 3 headed rushing attack back for the stretch run.
Possibly having the d-line rotation back at full strength.
Possibly having more game reps for their budding WRs like Stanbeck, Edelman, etc.

I'm sorry, but this has gotta be said. We can't dance around this anymore. The Colts fans used to make excuses when we beat them. Now we're the ones making the excuses. This isn't us. This isn't what we are used to and I can tell you why. It is because we've lost the physicality and aggressiveness that we used to have. I know we still make interceptions and forced fumbles, but when was the last time that you saw a play from the defense that really made opposing teams fear us?

Who is afraid to go across the middle against us? Who is afraid of taking a hard shot from our players? When was the last time that you saw a guy get hit and he looked like he really didn't want anymore? Now when you take all of that, and really think about it, you have to ask: Did we do all of these things when it counted? Did we make the big plays against the best teams in critical situations? I know that I'm asking a lot of questions, but that's what we've have a lot of for the past five years. We've had a bunch of question marks on the team because not enough players had answers. And you don't win championships if you can't answer other teams.

We aren't built to go blow for blow with other teams anymore. Football is a 60 minute fight and we keep getting knocked out at the 50. We have to finish games. We have to find balance. Yes, it's fine to be cautious on defense at times, but all the damn time is ridiculous. We've lost a lot of the aggressive energy on defense. We can't rush the passer in a critical situation to save our lives. If something should happen to Banta-Cain we are done. Dead in the water. But what about the offense.

Yes, we have a great passing game. Yes we have done a bunch of great things through the air. But this is the NFL. It's not always about what you've done. It's about what you are going to do. And bet on this! On 4th and 2, the Colts knew exactly what we were going to do. They knew that we were going to pass because that's what we are: A passing team. We are not an offensive team: that implies balance. We've lost a great deal of that. If you disagree, then ask yourself why a poor Jets team was able to climb back into a football game that it had no business being in. Why were they able to stop us on offense and push us around on defense. IT'S BECAUSE WE DON'T FIGHT BACK. We've lost how. We haven't fought back from a bad deficit since week 1. I don't even think the level of competition needs to be discussed (that team doesn't even have a winning record).

We can't just run the ball more, we have to run the ball more effectively. We have to stop defenders from hitting our running backs before the line of scrimmage. We have to stop being predictable. We have to get our tight ends more involved in a passing game that is lacking a true third receiver. Most importantly, we can't keep living in the shot gun. It lets other teams take too many shots at us. Our offensive linemen can't wear anyone down because the play is usually over before they can really do some damage.

We can't keep making excuses about other teams because we've become the "other team." We're not champions. We're chasers. That's all we are going to be until we get physical, aggressive, and find some balance.
 
SidelineSide, great post man. Welcome to the forum.
 
So sideline sid, you don't think that when the Pats have a healthy d & o line, full complement of RBs, they can be more aggressive, more physical?

Idk if this team can/will have an aggressive pass rush as constructed, but as far as developing a punishing running attack, does it make sense to have that mentality when you're down to Lomo & BJGE & have 2-3 o-lineman nursing injuries?

As far as the list of 'excuses', I'm really trying to point out just how close the Pats were to being an unreal dynasty. A couple of plays and a couple of questionable calls from being an unforseen dominant team in the era of free agency. NO other team can claim to be that close. None.

The Steelers won 2, but haven't been as close to as many as we have.
The Colts haven't really been THAT close when you look at it. Great reg seasons, disappointing playoffs... the kings of 1 & done.
 
I've been thinking this for a while now. Since we've moved away from having a clutch defense and a strong running game we've stopped winning championships.

Points and all that stuff are great, but give me the wins.
 
I tell ya people dont like felger and borges , but they usually hit the nail on the head.
 
We can't just run the ball more, we have to run the ball more effectively. We have to stop defenders from hitting our running backs before the line of scrimmage. We have to stop being predictable. We have to get our tight ends more involved in a passing game that is lacking a true third receiver. Most importantly, we can't keep living in the shot gun. It lets other teams take too many shots at us. Our offensive linemen can't wear anyone down because the play is usually over before they can really do some damage.

We can't keep making excuses about other teams because we've become the "other team." We're not champions. We're chasers. That's all we are going to be until we get physical, aggressive, and find some balance.

Great post. One of the announcers gave the stat that Brady had thrown out of the shotgun more than Brady other QB in the league. It makes us so predictable. And I dimply don't understand why the tight end is not more involved in the offense.

Another thing is the coaching in terms of the basics. This team has communication problems on both sides of the ball. They look confused out there all too often.
 
Anyone think Borges was way off on this one now?
 
Anyone think Borges was way off on this one now?


I hate the fact that Borges wrote that column. That guy gets happy whenever the Pats and Belichick fail, why is he even a Boston sports writer.
 
Last edited:
I hate the fact that Borges wrote that column. That guy gets happy whenever the Pats and Belichick fail, why is he even a Boston sports writer.

I think you answered your own question.
 
Him and Shaughnessy are on the radio now too. Can't stand it.
 
I hate the fact that Borges wrote that column. That guy gets happy whenever the Pats and Belichick fail, why is he even a Boston sports writer.


Exactly. **** Borges. He's pointing out what I, and most us knew last season. Why do this now? All he's doing is beating down as always.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Back
Top