Ron Borges: Patriots face identity crisis - Reminiscent of ‘soft’ Colts teams

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats_premi, Nov 30, 2009.

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  1. pats_premi

    pats_premi On the Game Day Roster

    I understand Ron Borges has strong biased against the Patriots, but he brings up an interesting point in regard to how the Colts are winning like the Patriots from the super bowl years. He also questions if the Patriots have become what the Colts were (i.e soft team)

    Patriots face identity crisis -

    Your thoughts ?
  2. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 Supporter Supporter

    #3 Jersey

    Wrong Borges is an idiot?
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS Supporter Supporter

    Borges is crap, pure and simple...makes a living off of being a contrarian..
  4. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

    I agree...Since 07, we're a finesse team...

    Even in 07, our defense was not tough, and we couldn't run the ball with any power.
  5. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    I just read that article in today's Herald and I tell you what.............

    Man he is DEAD ON. Say what you want but if they lose tonight there is no doubt about what he wrote.

    Gone are the big plays, the tough physical defense and run game. They simply try and outscore you and HOPE the opposing teams mess up along the way which doesn't seem to happen as much as we all hope for.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  6. robertweathers

    robertweathers Pro Bowl Player

    Ok so if they lose tonight and win the rest of their games ripping teams up but close the deal is he, and you both wrong? One game does not justify this position.

    The defense has lost talent and playmakers. Thats the difference.

    Fact is that if they win in 07, we aren't even having this discussion.

    This is dumb.
  7. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

    I like how the Patriots are "soft" because they lost to the Colts by one point in the regular season. Isn't the Colts rushing offense #30 - #32 or something? If we are soft, they are softer. The Colts are walking on a thin line. In all honesty, their defense is about one injury away from crashing. Freeny is already banged up.

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    #12 Jersey

    This team certainly has issues (ones that I firmly believe will be ironed out soon enough) but the last thing I would call this team is soft. Has he watched any of our games?
  9. WelshPat

    WelshPat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    If running the ball and great defense makes you tough, then neither the Colts or the Pats are tough, neither can run and against a good offense both defenses get exposed.

    But then again, if that's what makes you a tough team then i guess there are only like 2/3 tough teams in the league. The Vikings would be the only ones that stand out.
  10. brady et al fan

    brady et al fan Practice Squad Player

    I didn't read the entire article but this is not exactly breaking news. Its about personnel and more specifically our defensive personnel. Those gritty championship teams had 3 things going for them

    1) Bill Belicheck
    2) Tom Brady
    3) intense, play-making defense

    We still have 1 and 2 but we are still developing #3. I like what I am starting to see with our DBs but I think we're still an LB or 2 away from a championship defense and until then, yes, we have to rely on our offense putting up big numbers.

    I generally avoid Borges articles as he is one of the annoying anti-Belicheck, agenda-driven mediots in the area. He lost credibility a long time ago for me.
  11. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    I didn't read the article, but I've heard that argument before - possibly from Borges himself - that the Pats have gone soft, turning into the old Colts, etc.

    While I agree that the current Pats team does not seem to have as good a running game since Corey Dillon was here, or is not as good on defense as they were in '03 and '04, I don't think the '09 Pats are as bad in these areas as some portray them to be either.

    One other thing to keep in mind is with the changes in the ways refs are instructed to officiate a game, shifting towards more of a 'finesse' team may not be all that bad of a strategy. The teams known for having those tough, physical defenses - the Steelers, Ravens and Giants - are all 6-5 and on the outside looking in right now in terms of making the playoffs. Teams with a strong passing game - the Colts, Saints, Vikings, Chargers and Patriots - are all leading their divisions and appear to be in good shape for the playoffs.
  12. So how exactly do you explain being top two in turn over differential?

    Or that this defense is the second scoring defense in the league?

    Why do you believe in a history that doesn't exist?

    Never under estimate the stupidity of certain segments of the population.
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I agree with part of what you say.

    First, for Borges, this is a reasonably fair article. He doesn't seem to be grinding an ax against the Pats.

    Second, he's absolutely right about the Colts. They have been pure clutch, just like the 2003-2004 Pats teams. We moan about all their close calls, but they keep pulling out games in the clutch and finding ways to win, no matter what the situation. We exulted in the Pats' ability to do just that during the SB years.

    As far as his 2nd point, that the Pats have become a "finesse" team, I'm not so sure. I worried about this a lot during the preseason, and wanted to see us get more physical and aggressive on both sides of the ball. It seems to me that we've done just that, though we have lapsed back into being a finesse team at times, with disasterous results. But Maroney is running aggressively and with a nasty edge; Vollmer and Mankins are a physical, mean set of OLs unlike anything the Colts have had; and our defense is far from a finesse group, with hard hitting plays coming from the DL, LBs and secondary alike.

    The Pats' D is 2nd in the NFL in fewest points allowed. It's possible that they will keep the Saints' juggernaut under 20 points, but even if the game turns into a shootout I don't think it's a referendum on our defense being "soft". We're 3rd in the NFL in turnovers and 2nd in turnover differential. I'm not sure you can fairly say that "Gone are the big plays, the tough physical defense and run game. They simply try and outscore you and HOPE the opposing teams mess up along the way which doesn't seem to happen as much as we all hope for."

    I agree about 75% with Borges, and I don't think he's being unfair. The Colts have become the 2003-2004 Pats (except that they haven't been able to win in the postseason yet, which is a huge difference; until they prove that, they don't deserve comparisons with the 2003-2004 Pats). The Pats haven't yet learned that winning edge which they've had in the past, and have had trouble putting opponents away. And at times the Pats DO become a finesse team, which I think is a big mistake. But when this team plays with aggression and physicality on both sides of the ball, it's not at all a finesse team.
  14. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt Supporter Supporter

    I remember reading something along these lines not too long ago but I forget if it was an article or someone's post:confused: I'm not sure about the Pats going soft part but the comparison itself rings a bell. Tedy's interview maybe?

    Anyway I think the Colts/Manning have matured a lot over the years and in no small way it's thanks to the Pats. Back in the day we, and really only we, made fools of them. If not for us they likely would've been sporting another ring besides the one they FINALLY got ;)

    The Pats haven't gone "soft", sweetjeeezuz they've been making NFL history on more than one occasion, they pulled out an 11-5 record last year with Matty Man at the helm; most years that record takes us into January. We had a perfect season in 07 and it wasn't the Colts who beat us it was the Giants. Typical Borges. I may agree about the Colts but I disagree that the Pats have "gone soft". The only thing that's gone soft is Borges' brain:rolleyes:
  15. TennesseePatriot

    TennesseePatriot On the Game Day Roster

    Difference is DB's were allowed to touch our Wide Receivers.
  16. Patstopia

    Patstopia Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    #51 Jersey

    Twist it, shape it, anyway you like it. Just as long as it's a jab at the Pats it's all good. I couldn't even finish the 'article'. Pure unadulterated Bull S###. Just knowing he still works in this market makes me sick.
  17. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe Supporter Supporter

    #61 Jersey

    Thanks for asking my thoughts. They are:

    1). Borges is a jerk and usually wrong; hence, the name wRONg Borg-ass.

    2). Borges is a moron.

    3). Borges needs to get religion and become a missionary in the Congo.

    4). Anyone who reads Borges regularly is putting their mental health at severe risk.

    5). Other than Borges' obituary, I would be pleased never to see him mentioned in this forum, ever again.
  18. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    I wrote the exact same thing a month ago here in a thread, that the Pats and Colts have flipped styles.

    Did Borges just steal again...

    jk. Kind of.
  19. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    If Borges agrees with you, then that's a sign...


    #12 Jersey

    If the Patriots lose tonight I will have absolutely no confidence that they can get into the playoffs and beat the better teams...this team has beaten creampuffs all year (yes,Baltimore and Atlanta are far from Elite) so they need to not only win, but win convinsingly and it could go a long way to success when the playoffs start and the better teams are all that is left,this game is a must to win,not for the playoffs but for confidence.
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