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Ron and Rand are racist

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, May 23, 2010.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Those Pauls sure are nuts.

    Ron put out a racist newsletter in his own name (and which included Christmas greetings from him) and says he never knew about it.

    Ron says the Civil War was unnecessary to end slavery, despite the fact that the South was building up its own army and preparing to secede. (He says we should have bought the slaves and released them! Think we could have gotten 2 for the price of 1 or some other such deal?)

    YouTube - Ron Paul on the American Civil War

    Rand, his son, says that private businesses should be allowed to discriminate. According to Rand, if you go to Macy's to buy something on sale, the store should be allowed to say to you, "Sorry, we're not going sell you the item because your skin is the wrong color."

    And some Republicans are pretending that Rand and Ron aren't racist? If you don't think their views are racist, then what is racism to you?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  2. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Ron's racism has been common knowledge for some time. Rand's is just the result of too much Fountainhead in the womb.
     
  3. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    I'm not going to defend Rand, bc I don't know much about him. But it isn't racist just to think that companies should be allowed to discriminate.

    As one example that was brought up in another thread: is it ok for Curves only to let women join? (I think it's fine.)

    admittedly, I think it's more problematic when it comes to race or religion, but I don't think this issue is as clear-cut as some ake it out to be.
     
  4. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Let's approach it the other way: what is the benefit (to anybody) of allowing a business to discriminate on the basis of race? And Curves is just a lot of embarrassed fatties trying to lose weight - men don't want any part of that unless you're a chubby chaser like ****. There is no implicit or explicit assertion of gender superiority.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How can that not be racist? Let's suppose you moved into a neighborhood and your kids couldn't go to the movies because their skin was the wrong color? How can that not be racist?

    Don't get me wrong, I understand his philosophical point, but the end result of it is the sanctioning of racist behavior. Where there are legitimate differences between people, racism doesn't apply, as is sometimes the case with men and women sometimes requiring different facilities and services for purely physiological reasons.
     
  6. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    I don't know if I'd call it a "benefit," but there is a legitimate justification -- that people should be able to interact with, or do business with, whomever they choose.

    (In the end, this is an area where I depart from a strict libertarian point of view, because I think the societal harm outweighs the benefits of individual rights. But that's a pretty subjective argument.

    At the same time, though, I do think private groups should be able to discriminate.)
     
  7. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    there's a difference between being racist and thinking others should be allowed to be racist.

    I do believe that a private group should be permitted to discriminate -- be it a private club, a religious group, whatever. That doesnt mean that I personally want to join such a group or believe in such discrimination myself. It just means that I think there can be legitimate reasons for people to want to associate only with certain other people, and that even if I don't view the reasons as "legitimate," I don't think it's my place or the government's place to prohibit it)
     
  8. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    My problem with this is that is quickly devolves into a dangerous weapon, especially in an era of oligopolies, or in a like-minded region. And when does one person's freedom end and the other's begin?
     
  9. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Every time someone says Chappaquiddick, Patters chimes in with the
    Laura Bush's accident ignoring the fact that Kennedy left the girl for
    dead because he was more worried about himself than they girl who's
    life he lost.

    Every time someone mentions, opponents to gay marriage, patters
    chimes in with Romney & the Mormon church while ignoring the fact
    that the black churches opposed gay marriage in record numbers.

    Well everytime Patters makes a post about a racist republican, I feel
    it necessary to point out that Obama was a 20 year member of a racist
    church that preached black liberation theology.

    Why doesn't Patters have a problem with Obama being a racist?
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think the church was racist and black liberation theology has many variants which are not racist. Some of the original thinking had racist elements, but that has changed over time. At any rate, Obama does not express racist beliefs, so your analogy is weak, though it's a good way of distracting me from your defense of racist ideology.

    The only reason I mentioned Laura Bush was to point out the double standard applied to Kennedy.

    In terms of gay marriage, I probably have talked as much about black churches as I have about the Mormon church. My issue with Romney and the Mormon church has more to do with civil rights than gay rights, i.e., why wasn't Romney among those Mormons who pressed the church to allow blacks as full members (which they finally did in 1978)?
     
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have a Constitutional right to have racist beliefs and express racist thought, but you think we also have a Constitutional right to practice racism? How about anti-Semitism? Don't you think that such reasoning would hurt minorities more than majority populations? Don't you think it could lead to tyranny of the majority?
     
  12. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    I agree....
     
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Now I think you're going from private actions to government. I don't think there's any place for the government to discriminate.

    In the end, I think I mostly come out where you do. My main point is simply that this isn't really so clear a matter as it might seem and having a point of view that others should be able to be racist doesn't make one a racist.
     
  14. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Ha ha ha! Because he's not, genius. :ugh:
     
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you really have to ask? I don't call him Frauders for nothing pal.
     
  16. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Any 20 year member of the Chicago's Trinity Church of Christ that supported
    Rev Wright and Cones black liberation theology could be called a racist.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Obama is racist because of the church he attended, or was a member of?
     
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The man he described as his spiritual mentor, Rev Wright, is an overt racist. He attended Rev Wright's church for 20+ years. He donated 26k to the racist Wright's retirement digs.

    IF someone were a member of the Aryan Nation church I would consider them a racist.


    As to Rand Paul, going on the Maddow show and trying to argue an esoteric point about the constitutional issues in the 4 civil rights act he showed himself not ready for prime time.
     
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wright isn't a racist, but many racists interpreted some of Wright's hyperbole in that way, just as many interpret Rush's hyperbole in that way. With Rand and Ron there's little room for interpretation. You're either for or against the Civil Rights Act of 1964, for or against the Civil War, for or against discrimination. Actually, the only one in this forum I've ever seen defend this type of thinking until now is BF (where is he, anyway?), but do you agree with this aspect of Libertarianism?
     
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    how exactly is Wright an "overt racist"?
     

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