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Romney: Anti-Mormon phone calls 'un-American'

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Nov 16, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Romney is certainly right that those anti-Mormon phone calls are unAmerican, but where was he in the 1970s when the Mormon Church did not admit black people into their ranks? The answer is he was out proselytizing (white people, of course) and left it to other Mormons to fight the racist doctrine. His indignance about these phone calls exposes not only his hypocrisy, but his selfishness as well.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/16/romney-camp-anti-mormon-calls-repulsive/

    WASHINGTON (CNN) — Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney called reports of anti-Mormon phone calls made to voters in New Hampshire "un-American" Friday, shortly after his campaign said it has formally asked the state's attorney general to investigate the matter.

    "I've seen over the last few weeks more and more reports of e-mails, of literature being passed out, and now push polls which attack me on the basis of religion and I think that's very, very disappointing and un-American," Romney said while campaigning in Nevada.

    According to the Associated Press, potential voters in both New Hampshire and Iowa have received anonymous phone calls designed to spread a negative image of the former Massachusetts governor.

    Specifically, the calls raise questions about his Mormon faith, and the deferments he received from the Vietnam War because he was doing missionary work in France.
  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    There *are* black Mormons, plenty of them, and have been for decades. They are still a small minority -- but look for a black in an Irish Catholic Church in Southie or in Revere.

    This is a red herring issue. So Romney drew France as his mission country -- it's not like he necessarily got what he wanted; the missions are usually assigned, not chosen.

    Back in the Vietnam era, in the 60s, I remember Louise Day Hicks marching and protesting against "busing" students from Roxbury to schools in South Boston, Revere, and Chelsea. It was a different era back then, as everyone knows. Romney didn't invent racism, but people today *are* trying to make his faith an issue, something that Democrats from Massachusetts should be sensitive about since Catholic John Kennedy ran for the presidency.

    You are blaming the victim here, Patters.

    :nono:



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  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not blaming him. I agree with him. It's very wrong for the Republican Party to use religious bigotry against Romney. All bigotry is wrong, but selfish people only appreciate that if the bigotry affects them. They fail to learn the bigger lesson. (As far as Kennedy goes, it was the Democrats who chose a Catholic and Nixon attacked him by regularly bringing up his Catholicism.)

    In the 1970s, there were some black Mormons, but they mostly belonged to an independent Mormon church. The main Mormon church excluded them from the priesthood, which basically meant they were excluded from the tabernacle. Apparently, every good Mormon enters the priesthood. While some Mormons were fighting to change the church, Romney was not. That's wrong, and it's quite sad that you're apparently trying to defend him on this.
  4. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Come on, Patters, this is what you said:

    "...but where was he in the 1970s when the Mormon Church did not admit black people into their ranks? The answer is he was out proselytizing (white people, of course) and left it to other Mormons to fight the racist doctrine. His indignance about these phone calls exposes not only his hypocrisy, but his selfishness as well."

    If that is not blaming (accusing, tarring and feathering, dumping) on the guy, I don't what is. Romney is a very decent guy, a family man who has devoted a lot of his life in public service when he could be living a very high and selfish life as a wealthy private businessman.

    And it certainly is NOT the "Republican Party" who is doing the smear campaign against him; it is a few religiously intolerant, narrow-minded individuals insecure in their own faith who are doing it.

    And you are darn right I am defending him, but not for the straw man reasons you try to throw up. I defend him from the transparent attacks on him from religiously intolerant -- even religiously bigoted -- individuals.



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    Last edited: Nov 16, 2007
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You do not know any of this, most of what is portrayed about Mitt is done by well scripted folks who want to portray his wholesome image. We never know what happens behind closed doors. With your line of reasoning, Ted Kennedy has devoted his whole life to public service when he could be living a very high and selfish life as a wealthy private business man.

    You do not know for certain it is not the Republican Party or some faction of it, it is less to do about religious intolerance and more to do about politics and preying on people's fears.
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, I'm using it to make a point about Romney's selfishness and hypocrisy, but I said that, "Romney is certainly right that those anti-Mormon phone calls are unAmerican"

    I agree with that, though think his motivations (as for all candidates) also include fame, power, and being part of history. Plus, I think for Mormons that success, including material success, reflects on the quality of their ancestors. That's why genealogy is so important in the Mormon Church.

    Well, this links phone calls to either McCain or Giuliani:

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonat...mney_antiMormon_calls_being_made_in_Iowa.html

    Plus, I agree with you there are narrow-minded religious people of faith who have smeared him, mostly religious conservatives who seem to learn no big lessons from prejudice. I once knew a guy who was thrown out of his home as teenager for being gay. His father was a Penecostal minister. A few years later, his mother said to him, "I can accept that you're gay as long as you're never with a black man!" That's as ignorant as the Mormon Church and its members were up until the mid-70s. Romney showed no courage at an age when young people were bravely going to war, protesting the war, fighting for civil rights, or fighting for equality for women. Romney played it safe.

    No, you're defending him because you're looking for another father figure. You can't have Romney flawed. You can't have people criticize Romney for failing to take a stand on blacks in the Mormon Church when he was a young man.

    As I've said, I would not hesitate to vote for a liberal Mormon, and I think that is true of 99% of liberals. As the Democratic candidates show, they really don't care about one's ethnicity, race, gender, or religion. What evidence do you have that the Republican Party feels the same way at the Presidential level?
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Try trashing Muslims & Allah the same way the "Bigot Bastards" trash the Mormans and the Left Wing Liberal Society would start a Civil War, Liberals and Democrats would be setting themsleve on fire all across the country.

    My favorite subject, "the old double standard again".
    :bricks:
  8. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    So, bottom line, you filter all candidates through your lens of "liberalism", which to you means: allowing your views on human relations to have equal standing with the views (and actions) that actually produce life, and which have ALWAYS produced life, and this is where you fail. Anything that does not harmonize and synchronize with the cosmos is unfit to exist in the cosmos, and will be dropped. It is non-sustainable because it does not contribute anything to the whole. Universal law.


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  9. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Well, it's just his usual M.O. of race-baiting... Romeny went to France, so he must be racist..!!

    Of course, being an ex-Klansman is perfectly OK if you have that (d) after your name....
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2007
  10. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Where does that come from, and what does it have to do with Mormonism? What is the source of your knowledge of cosmic balance and harmony?
    Or are you just making up more crap so you can bridge to interjecting more of your wierd fascination with sex into the conversation?
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2007
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    I know what I see when I look at people, and Mitt Romney is essentially a decent, hard-working family man who wants what is best for his nation of America and for all people in the world, too. That's what I see.

    If it were any other way, I'd be happy to tell it the way it was, too. I have NO reason to lie or be deceived. There is absolutely no reason to do or allow that. I'm not a Mormon, and I don't get any government assistance in any way, shape, or form.

    Mitt Romney is a solidly good candidate, the best of the lot of all candidates so far.


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  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Man, what are you smoking?
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    America is decaying, all our unchecked freedoms are destroying us, we are turning into a squirming cesspool of sh!t, deceit, lies and imorality therefore we will probably elect Pant Suit Hillary as the next President she is the only choice for this new depraved society of suck & f-ck morons.
    :bricks:
  14. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Luckily for all Americans, your opinion means nothing since you left your country years ago to live in a different one.

    Thanks for enlightening us on your irrelevant opinion.

    Maybe you could tell us something about your president and government. I'm always interested in foreign affairs.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2007
  15. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Can't answer so you immediately go to smack.

    And you're a "moderator", no less.(!!)


    Wow.

    :nono:



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  16. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Another one who can't deal with the truth so you go immediately to ad hominem. Speaks volumes to your lack of argument. Go on to a personal attack because you cannot refute or improve on what I say.

    And you say *my* opinions don't matter!!!


    :rofl:



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  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's hardly an insult, but the sort of response that goes with this sort of new age thinking, "Anything that does not harmonize and synchronize with the cosmos is unfit to exist in the cosmos, and will be dropped. It is non-sustainable because it does not contribute anything to the whole. Universal law." Far out.

    And I certainly don't look to the likes of you to tell me what harmonizes with the cosmos and what the universal law is, but I don't want to get into a discussion about that minor religion to which you belong.

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