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Romeo or Charlie: Which one would do you think would be more likely to come back?


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They both left here to go on to what they saw as greener pastures, ie, more money and more importantly EGO. I am the best OC and DC, but that is not enough, I want more; more money, more power, I want to prove I can run the ship myself.

They have both proven to be miserable failures in their new roles, so I wouldn't want either one of them back.

Had they both stayed here, the Patriots would have two more Super Bowl wins......................

I didn't like that they left either, but can you really blame them? Once upon a time, Bill Belichick dared to leave his job as defensive coordinator after winning two rings with the Giants, in order to pursue a head coaching job with the Browns. He stumbled, got fired, and went back to work for Parcells, but he became a better coach for it. We got ourselves a dynasty in New England because Belichick dared to dream big. So I don't hold it against Weis or Crennel for thinking the same way.

Now the ratfink Mangina, well, I wouldn't have mind if he didn't do it to join our arch rivals. He can go to hell. ;)
 
Probably Romeo are defense hasn't been the same since 05.
 
"I didn't like that they left either, but can you really blame them? Once upon a time, Bill Belichick dared to leave his job as defensive coordinator after winning two rings with the Giants, in order to pursue a head coaching job with the Browns. He stumbled, got fired, and went back to work for Parcells, but he became a better coach for it. We got ourselves a dynasty in New England because Belichick dared to dream big. So I don't hold it against Weis or Crennel for thinking the same way."

Right; but some people aren't cut out to be head coaches, THEY KNOW IT, but their ego's won't allow themselves to be talked out of it.

What is wrong with being a life long OC or DC, staying with a team/organization that you enjoy working for and racking up the Super Bowls like both of them did and would have continued to do.

I understand all the BS about what you do in that situation, you'd go for the highest paid job too; ah, no I wouldn't, been in that position before and stayed where I was, I loved my job and did not want all the added responsibility, moving to a new city, etc even though it meant more money.

Money does not drive the bus for everyone; I'd rather love what I do and where I am that go somewhere else for money, just doesn't work for me and judging by both of their track records at the helm, it didn't work for either one of them too............
 
I got that feeling, if USC embarrases ND tonight, it's all over for Charlie.
 
"I didn't like that they left either, but can you really blame them? Once upon a time, Bill Belichick dared to leave his job as defensive coordinator after winning two rings with the Giants, in order to pursue a head coaching job with the Browns. He stumbled, got fired, and went back to work for Parcells, but he became a better coach for it. We got ourselves a dynasty in New England because Belichick dared to dream big. So I don't hold it against Weis or Crennel for thinking the same way."

Right; but some people aren't cut out to be head coaches, THEY KNOW IT, but their ego's won't allow themselves to be talked out of it.

What is wrong with being a life long OC or DC, staying with a team/organization that you enjoy working for and racking up the Super Bowls like both of them did and would have continued to do.

I understand all the BS about what you do in that situation, you'd go for the highest paid job too; ah, no I wouldn't, been in that position before and stayed where I was, I loved my job and did not want all the added responsibility, moving to a new city, etc even though it meant more money.

Money does not drive the bus for everyone; I'd rather love what I do and where I am that go somewhere else for money, just doesn't work for me and judging by both of their track records at the helm, it didn't work for either one of them too............

That is true. If a particular job makes you happy, then added responsibility and money may not necessarily make you happier. Monte Kiffin probably loves being DC in TB, even though he's been tempted to leave for a HC job before.
 
I vividly remember posting on here during training camp 2005, when Weis made a visit to Gillette. My post went something along the lines of "I know it sounds crazy, but I have this strange feeling Weis is going to be back with the Pats some day." When he got the big contract the next year, that feeling subsided, but still, funny how things go.
 
RAC all the way for me. i simply more of a need for his services than Weis' at the moment.
 
I find it amazing that Pees and Capers are being blamed instead of applauded for the rcoaching job with the Patriot Defense.

BB decided he had to rebuild the Defense, and wanted to do it without having a 5-11 season or worse. He told these guys that he was rebuilding and wanted to do it in two years or less, while the Offense was as good as any in the League. And he wanted to CONTINUE Winning while they did it.

I think thet have suceeded magnificently.

The number of old vets who have gone over the hill is large: Ty Law, Roman Phifer, Ted Johnson, Willie McGinnest, Rosey Colvin, Jr. Seau, Rodney Harrison. There is only one left and he is almost a backup behind UDFA rookie Guyton. Tedy is is the last connection to the old Defense, when you think about it.

Thankfully the Defensive line is all superb, young, and have provided the continuity for the transition. Even there, however, Seymour had to come back from a knee and arm injury. Warren has had a few hurts too.

The foundation for the new Patriots Defense has been laid. Mayo, Woods, Guyton, Meriwether, Sanders, Hobbs, as well as AD, Vrabel; and the defensive linemen Seymour,Wilfork, Warren, LeKevin, Wright, Jarvis along with rookies Wheatley, Willhite, and Crable are a great foundation for a new generation of dominating Defense. This draft you can probably add a S, CB, ILB and OLB to the mix too. By this time next season, the Pat's Defense will be an intimidating one, equivalent to the best the Pats have had this decade, and composed of players able to play together for three to five years or more.
 
I think Charlie needs one more year.. that would give him 5 solid years.. the team tonight looks like it has given up.. I like Charlie and wont mind him back with the Pats if Mcdaniels , who has done a great job this yr leaves..
 
I think Romeo is more likely to be back next year. Charlie might take a year off, he might need knee surgery, he has young kids, and he's going to get an enormous buyout.
 
I find it amazing that Pees and Capers are being blamed instead of applauded for the rcoaching job with the Patriot Defense.

BB decided he had to rebuild the Defense, and wanted to do it without having a 5-11 season or worse. He told these guys that he was rebuilding and wanted to do it in two years or less, while the Offense was as good as any in the League. And he wanted to CONTINUE Winning while they did it.

I think thet have suceeded magnificently.

The number of old vets who have gone over the hill is large: Ty Law, Roman Phifer, Ted Johnson, Willie McGinnest, Rosey Colvin, Jr. Seau, Rodney Harrison. There is only one left and he is almost a backup behind UDFA rookie Guyton. Tedy is is the last connection to the old Defense, when you think about it.

Thankfully the Defensive line is all superb, young, and have provided the continuity for the transition. Even there, however, Seymour had to come back from a knee and arm injury. Warren has had a few hurts too.

The foundation for the new Patriots Defense has been laid. Mayo, Woods, Guyton, Meriwether, Sanders, Hobbs, as well as AD, Vrabel; and the defensive linemen Seymour,Wilfork, Warren, LeKevin, Wright, Jarvis along with rookies Wheatley, Willhite, and Crable are a great foundation for a new generation of dominating Defense. This draft you can probably add a S, CB, ILB and OLB to the mix too. By this time next season, the Pat's Defense will be an intimidating one, equivalent to the best the Pats have had this decade, and composed of players able to play together for three to five years or more.

I agree, but only to an extent. I would not call it a full-fledged rebuilding effort; just more of a natural progression of personnel (out through free agency/retirement, in through free agency/draft).

Just think personnel-wise:

2001-02 DL: Hamilton, Pleasant, McGinest, Seymour
2001-02 LB: Vrabel, Bruschi, Phifer, Johnson, Cox (01)
2001-02 DB: Law, Milloy, Otis, Tebucky, Buckley/V. Green

2003-04 DL: Hamilton, Seymour, Warren, Wilfork (04), Washington (03), Green
2003-04 LB: Vrabel, Bruschi, Phifer, Johnson, Colvin, McGinest
2003-04 DB: Law, Harrison, Poole, Wilson, Samuel, Gay (04)

2005-06 DL: Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Green, Wright
2005-06 LB: Vrabel, Bruschi, Colvin, McGinest, Seau (06), Banta-Cain
2005-06 DB: Harrison, Samuel, Hobbs, Wilson, Sanders, C. Scott

2007-08 DL: Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Green, Wright
2007-08 LB: Vrabel, Bruschi, Mayo/Seau, Colvin (07), Thomas
2007-08 DB: Harrison, Samuel, Hobbs, Sanders, Meriweather, Wheatley (08)

We see the same thing each year, in fairly equal degrees. Hamilton, Pleasant, Cox, Milloy, Otis, and Tebucky all went out, and Warren, Colvin, Wilson, Samuel, Wilfork, Washington, Green, and Poole all came in.

Then, McGinest, Phifer, Law, Washington, Johnson, and Poole came out, and Hobbs, Seau, Wright, Sanders, Banta-Cain all came in. THIS is where I think the Pats are paying: the outs obviously out-weigh the ins, especially when you think Bruschi was part of these 2003-04 outs at first in 2005. Their replacements - namely Duane Starks, Dexter Reid, Guss Scott, Atrell Hawkins, Chad Brown, Monty Beisel, Michael Stone, and Chad Scott did flat-out not work.

The 2005 and 2006 drafts/free agency were supposed to create depth that would replenish the losses of Samuel, Harrison, and the demise of Wilson just like the drafting of Warren, Wilfork, Wilson, Samuel, etc. did for the losses of Law, Hamilton, Washington, Otis, Milloy, etc. They did not. In fact, they utterly failed. Just think - 2005 brought in Hobbs, Sanders, and Claridge - Hobbs and Sanders are adequate, but have not brought what a Samuel or Koppen did for the Pats in the mid-rounds. 2006 brought in Jeremy Mincey, Le Kevin Smith, Willie Andrews, and a stable of offensive players - Maroney, Jackson, D. Thomas, Mills, O'Callaghan, Stevenson, and of course Gostkowski. The 2006 draft did not hurt the Patriots immediately, but it's really stinging them now.

So I really don't think it's a change in mindset this season as opposed to past years. It was a failure for the replacements of 2005-2006 to follow through, not a failure for the team actually have the initiative to get these replacements in the first place.

Separating talent and coaching is to split an atom; you can't definitively say whether coaching or lack of talent is the problem, because the two cannot survive without each other. I do not think the Pats are making a concerted effort to move out the "defense of old" and move in the "defense of new;" there are no such things so black and white. What we see is just a natural progression of personnel. The defensive problems we've seen in the post-Super Bowl years are a collective problem between personnel missteps in 2005 and 2006 and coaching deficiencies coming to light more and more as these missteps gain greater importance.

And I tend to disagree with your assessment of next year's defense at this time. Things just don't come together like that; for all we know, Wilhite, Crable, and Wheatley could be nothing more than special teams caliber players. Guyton is promising, sure, but in very limited playing time. He could just be another Banta-Cain. I think we know Mayo is a rock, and that Meriweather is getting there. But Sanders and Hobbs are upgradable players, and if the Patriots want to have an "intimidating" defense, then they will need to make those upgrades. Outside of the DL (which is a rock too, especially with a contract extension), depth is a problem; Bruschi and Harrison are seeing their very last days, and Vrabel can't be used wire-to-wire like he is now. So outside of Mayo, Thomas, and Meriweather, there is a lot that needs to be shored up, and just tossing in a few more mid-round picks isn't going to do the trick.
 
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Weis is not going anywhere this year...ND will give him one more year to improve. Look at ND, they have either Freshman or Sophomores at all the skilled positions. They are young so Charlie will get another year IMO
 
Weis is not going anywhere this year...ND will give him one more year to improve. Look at ND, they have either Freshman or Sophomores at all the skilled positions. They are young so Charlie will get another year IMO

All the news tonight and over the past month suggests otherwise.

And as I post this, USC is shutting out ND 24-0 in the 3rd.
 
our D was one of the best in the league for the years Romeo was DCing. Pees stinks, i dont even know if he knows what a blitz is.
 
our D was one of the best in the league for the years Romeo was DCing. Pees stinks, i dont even know if he knows what a blitz is.

Lol he knows what a blitz is, I think he's a lil spooked to blitz cause the secondary isnt that good.
 
Weis is not going anywhere this year...ND will give him one more year to improve. Look at ND, they have either Freshman or Sophomores at all the skilled positions. They are young so Charlie will get another year IMO

Are you watching the game tonight?

I thought Charlie would get one more year too, but this looks like he's all done. The players seem to have heard something.

No discipline. Players fighting pre-game. Players jawing and woofing. Players getting personal foul calls well after the whistle not for late hits, but for trash talking while they're down 31-0.

Charlie has lost all control of this team.

He's done. Stick a fork in him.
 
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