Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady is 'Flat-Footed'

[livinginthe past]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

Let me start by stating that I think Brady is clearly the best QB in the NFL today and, right now, one of the best of all time.

Having said that, i'm a little taken aback by the lack of realism being shown by alot of Patriots fans with regard to Roethlisberger.

We should be able to appreciate what he brings to the table in terms of skills and playmaking ability.

No doubt, some of this over-reaction has been caused by the slightly insane Ben=Brady thread.

1. Ben is a fun QB to watch, while it is true that he does tend to hold onto the ball too long on occasion; he does extend alot of plays with his feet and his strength.

2. The guy is a warrior, but unfortunately he combines that with an undesirable habit of overplaying and faking injuries. This actually serves to lessen fans appreciation of what a tough customer he really is.

3. Yes, he did stink up that Seattle Superbowl - no question. But look at his performances in the preceding postseason games:

vs Cincy 14/19..... 208yds.......3 TD....0 INT.......148.7 QBR
vs Indy 14/24.......197yds........2 TD....1 INT........95.3 QBR
vs Denver 21/29....275yds.......2 TD....0 INT........124.9 QBR

Again, lets not get caught up in comparing him to Brady - those are excellent, highly efficient numbers whichever way you break it.

4. It would be nice to to hear Ben mentioned without the accompanying 'Rapistburger' jibe - this is almost as tired as dumbass rival fans who can't mention the Patriots without using such hilarious and witty terms as 'Cheatriots' and 'Belicheat'.

Lets not underplay how good a QB Ben is just because he pales with comparison to Brady - not many QB's in NFl history would look good under that type of scrutiny.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

The Jets last season in the post-season made out a great blue-print into beating Brady. People were in his face constantly (something Ben deals with every game) and the moment and second his timing is off and those short to intermediate routes aren't there and there's guys flying around him, he folds like a lawn chair and looks mediocre at best. Fortunately for N.E fans, Brady is never exposed in the pocket with NO guys around him, ever. But when there are, he's beatable. Roethlisberger just gets warmed up with pressure around him.

The Giants made out a great blue print in 2007, too. Shockingly, the Patriots have kept on winning games since then. As for that Jets blueprint, the Patriots just beat the Jets a couple of weeks ago, so that blueprint seems to need a replacement. Is this really the best you can do? You're not even re-hashing Steelers' arguments. You're re-hashing Jets claims.





Pathetic.

 

[skspikex2]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

After all you just said, I respect Roethlisberger's game even more after tuning into seeing Tom Brady. Roethlisberger does hold onto the ball too long at certain times but it has nothing to do with not reading defense's or lacking in his decision making. The dude's wideouts are consistently running 15 yards downfield, with no dumpoff option and his offensive line gives him a sorry second to make a decision. The athletic ability he portrays in holding onto the ball, stiff arming defensive lineman, getting out of the pocket and finding an open man is just as elusive as Brady throwing quick, 3 yard outs to Wes Welker.

Ben is not Tom Brady NOR Peyton Manning and we don't want him to be because quite frankly, behind that offensive line, Brady and Manning would be eating dirt and would be sacked atleast 7 times a game. I'd gladly take Ben's style over Brady's. It's simply how Pittsburgh plays and it's dangerous. Hopefully, you'll see how much Ben can be dangerous now when he's actually equipped with talent around him in the passing game.

Yea it's called hot route, motions, change blocking assignment at the line of scrimmage. If Roethlisberger saw the blitz coming and doesn't audible, whose fault is that? Look at the Colts O-line now, it's a joke without Manning.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

After all you just said, I respect Roethlisberger's game even more after tuning into seeing Tom Brady. Roethlisberger does hold onto the ball too long at certain times but it has nothing to do with not reading defense's or lacking in his decision making. The dude's wideouts are consistently running 15 yards downfield, with no dumpoff option and his offensive line gives him a sorry second to make a decision. The athletic ability he portrays in holding onto the ball, stiff arming defensive lineman, getting out of the pocket and finding an open man is just as elusive as Brady throwing quick, 3 yard outs to Wes Welker.

Ben is not Tom Brady NOR Peyton Manning and we don't want him to be because quite frankly, behind that offensive line, Brady and Manning would be eating dirt and would be sacked atleast 7 times a game. I'd gladly take Ben's style over Brady's. It's simply how Pittsburgh plays and it's dangerous. Hopefully, you'll see how much Ben can be dangerous now when he's actually equipped with talent around him in the passing game.

So you wouldn't want a far superior QB because the Steelers' o-line sucks? Take the lesser QB who can't read defense and has to run around.

You know what? If the Steelers had Brady or Manning, they might have one or two more Super Bowl rings with the defense they have.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

The Jets last season in the post-season made out a great blue-print into beating Brady. People were in his face constantly (something Ben deals with every game) and the moment and second his timing is off and those short to intermediate routes aren't there and there's guys flying around him, he folds like a lawn chair and looks mediocre at best. Fortunately for N.E fans, Brady is never exposed in the pocket with NO guys around him, ever. But when there are, he's beatable. Roethlisberger just gets warmed up with pressure around him.

Yet, no one including the Jets have been able to duplicate that blueprint this season. Brady is still on pace to beat Marino's passing record. People said the same thing about the Giants in the Super Bowl and Brady because the first unanimous MVP last year.

Meanwhile, Brady has 2,163 yards, 16 TDs, and 8 INTs in 6 games while Roethlisberger has 1,937 yards, 12 TDs, and 6 INTs in 7 games. Brady is completing 67.5% of his passes while Roethlisberger is completing 62.8% of his passes.

 

[borg]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

Two SuperBowl wins and a loss. Seems to me Big Ben's style is just fine. The world of Patriot-good, World-bad seems petty too often

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

Two SuperBowl wins and a loss. Seems to me Big Ben's style is just fine. The world of Patriot-good, World-bad seems petty too often

I never said that Roethlisberger was a bad QB. In fact, I think he is really good one. He just isn't in Brady's league.

He does have deficiencies though. The fact he is really hard to bring down masks his biggest deficiencies. If he wasn't big and strong, his holding onto the ball too long and inabilities to read defenses the way Brady does would be a big liability. But since he is, they are not that big of a liability.

Brady has deficiencies too which he masks with other skill sets. Every QB does. Roethlisberger is just spotlighting his deficiencies with his comments about Brady.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

4. It would be nice to to hear Ben mentioned without the accompanying 'Rapistburger' jibe - this is almost as tired as dumbass rival fans who can't mention the Patriots without using such hilarious and witty terms as 'Cheatriots' and 'Belicheat'.

All of it was well said LitP, but I wanted to highlight what you said as I am in perfect agrrement and was going to make a similar post. I would think we, as fans, and having lived through more than our share of lame retorts as Cheatriots et al, would be above this.

We may not like Ben (or Ray Lewis) as people, but as football players, they are both good, if not great in Lewis's case. When discussing merits of on the field accomplishments, those labels really have no bearing. And talk about their personal lives generally isn't warranted

 

[livinginthe past]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

All of it was well said LitP, but I wanted to highlight what you said as I am in perfect agrrement and was going to make a similar post. I would think we, as fans, and having lived through more than our share of lame retorts as Cheatriots et al, would be above this.

We may not like Ben (or Ray Lewis) as people, but as football players, they are both good, if not great in Lewis's case. When discussing merits of on the field accomplishments, those labels really have no bearing. And talk about their personal lives generally is warranted

Thanks man.

I was just thinking earlier (while re-watching the Patriots/Chargers '06 Divisional game) what an absolute douche LaDanian Tomlinson is, yet I can still appreciate what a fantastic football talent he was.

As a sidenote; I actually happen to like Ray Lewis from what limited information I have of him as an individual.

 

[robbomango]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

Didn't realize how sensitive the Pats fanbase really is. A reporter asked Ben what it was that makes Brady so good and how to rattle him. I've seen Tom Brady have literally 10 seconds to throw the football while Ben doesn't even hit his 2 step drop with FREE LINEMAN in his face. The Steelers offensive line is seriously putrid but have been playing solid lately, giving Roethlisberger time and Ben's delivering. Brady has the greatest WR possibly of all time racking up yards after the catch. Welker takes 4 yard dump offs and churns them into 10-15 yard plays. Ben is always heavily under pressure and rarely has a dumpoff option until recently. Everything that has been said so far isn't a knock towards anybody, just the truth. Brady is flat-footed in the pocket. All you got to do is give the eyeball test. Dude stands there waiting for his pizza to be delivered while Roethlisberger runs for his life after a mir second.

It is a knock on Brady especially when Ben has to point out that it isn't.

It wasn't a knock on TB either when Ben said Marquee QB's draw more flags I suppose. Another myth with no data to back it up, except the recent article showing that TB draws less flags per attempt and sits on the bottom of that list.

QB's should be on the balls of their feet until they locate a receiver and step into the throw, basic mechanics. Saying a QB is sitting back there flat footed isn't a compliment.

He's dumb and can't speak well, no knock on Ben!!!

 

[thenepatsrule]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

A couple of things:

1.) As others points out, Roethlisberger is actually pointing out a HUGE deficiency in his own game. He cannot read defenses or make fast decisions. Brady having all day in the pocket is a misnomer. He usually gets rid of the ball too quick for people to get to him.
.

I actually remember watching something on ESPN about QBs and the time they take to release the ball.
According to ESPN Brady and Manning take the least amount of time to throw the ball once it is in their hands.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

Teams generally don't blitz Brady because he beats the blitz so well. Instead they rush 3 and drop the rest. Thus, it appears that Brady has all kinds of time when compared to guys like the Rapist, because teams aren't afraid to blitz the rapist, he isn't going to beat the blitz with a quick read and throw....hence, the Rapist running out the pocket and playing school yard football. If DBs were more disciplined in their assignments, you would see the Rapist suck much more often.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

The Jets last season in the post-season made out a great blue-print into beating Brady. People were in his face constantly (something Ben deals with every game) and the moment and second his timing is off and those short to intermediate routes aren't there and there's guys flying around him, he folds like a lawn chair and looks mediocre at best. Fortunately for N.E fans, Brady is never exposed in the pocket with NO guys around him, ever. But when there are, he's beatable. Roethlisberger just gets warmed up with pressure around him.

I don't have anything constructive to add to this argument, except that you're ******* stupid. . Someone really should ban this troll already.

Brady used to get blitzed all the time, but teams mostly stopped because he consistently posts perfect QB ratings when blitzed. If you leave a man open. Brady will hit him everytime. If that was true about Ben, maybe teams would stop blitzing him so much.

The Jets' "blueprint" for beating the Pats was to put a ton of defensive backs on the field, flood the intermediate zones, and get consistent pressure with a 4 man rush. There isn't a quarterback in the NFL who can beat that gameplan when it's executed, including Roethlisberger. Luckily, the Pats' offensive line is a whole lo better than it was then, so we're unlikely to see that gameplan executed again.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

That's part of the reason Ben will never be Brady, despite being arguably more physically gifted. He cares more about making himself look good than his teammates, practically begging for the credit here. Brady defends his team to the death. He spent all of SB42 on his back and never complained a word about it. You won't find a better teammate/leader.

Plus Ben rapes underage girls

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

That's part of the reason Ben will never be Brady, despite being arguably more physically gifted. He cares more about making himself look good than his teammates, practically begging for the credit here. Brady defends his team to the death. He spent all of SB42 on his back and never complained a word about it. You won't find a better teammate/leader.

Plus Ben rapes underage girls

Bravo. Correction though. Ben doesn't rape underage girls. He rapes drunk below 21 above 18 girls.
It's Mark Sanchez who does underage girls.

 

[SpiderFox53]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

All I've got to say about Ben

 

[Sivy]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

Two SuperBowl wins and a loss. Seems to me Big Ben's style is just fine. The world of Patriot-good, World-bad seems petty too often

I remember this one time when the refs totally without question ripped away a superbowl from the seahawks..you member, member?

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

The Jets last season in the post-season made out a great blue-print into beating Brady. People were in his face constantly (something Ben deals with every game) and the moment and second his timing is off and those short to intermediate routes aren't there and there's guys flying around him, he folds like a lawn chair and looks mediocre at best. Fortunately for N.E fans, Brady is never exposed in the pocket with NO guys around him, ever. But when there are, he's beatable. Roethlisberger just gets warmed up with pressure around him.

You oversimplified what the Jets did. If it was just about getting guys in his face, teams would blitz like crazy. Yet Brady destroys such tactics.

What the Jets do well is disguise where the pressure is coming from, but still rush 4 guys. They will also move guys around, into different gaps or right on the noses of the OL, looking for weaknesses to exploit. In coverage, they will mix up man and zone and with guys like Revis and Cromartie, they can afford to do this. The hope is that the confusing coverage will force Brady to hold the ball a bit longer and once he starts taking hits, the Jets will start pulling their coverage closer to the LOS and then Brady will do one of three things: (a) hold the ball even longer as he is both looking for the rush and trying to diagnose the coverage, (b) start calling screens which won't work since the Jets aren't really blitzing or (c) call quick-hitters in which the Jets' closer coverage will eat up for short gains at best. Note that the Jets have the CBs to make this work while I'm not so sure the Steelers do, so the blueprint would be tough to execute.

The Steelers are one of those teams that wants its D to force the offense adjust. They'll live...and die...with their zone blitz. Brady has eaten it up. I'd admire the Steelers a lot more if they actually made more adjustments on D and played more of a Jets style (or even Ravens style of tight man coverage behind a ferocious rush, betting the WRs cannot get separation in time).

Regards,
Chris

 

[lillloyd]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

You oversimplified what the Jets did. If it was just about getting guys in his face, teams would blitz like crazy. Yet Brady destroys such tactics.

What the Jets do well is disguise where the pressure is coming from, but still rush 4 guys. They will also move guys around, into different gaps or right on the noses of the OL, looking for weaknesses to exploit. In coverage, they will mix up man and zone and with guys like Revis and Cromartie, they can afford to do this. The hope is that the confusing coverage will force Brady to hold the ball a bit longer and once he starts taking hits, the Jets will start pulling their coverage closer to the LOS and then Brady will do one of three things: (a) hold the ball even longer as he is both looking for the rush and trying to diagnose the coverage, (b) start calling screens which won't work since the Jets aren't really blitzing or (c) call quick-hitters in which the Jets' closer coverage will eat up for short gains at best. Note that the Jets have the CBs to make this work while I'm not so sure the Steelers do, so the blueprint would be tough to execute.

The Steelers are one of those teams that wants its D to force the offense adjust. They'll live...and die...with their zone blitz. Brady has eaten it up. I'd admire the Steelers a lot more if they actually made more adjustments on D and played more of a Jets style (or even Ravens style of tight man coverage behind a ferocious rush, betting the WRs cannot get separation in time).

Regards,
Chris

I've got to wonder if Lebeau isn't simply acutely aware of his personnel limitations, and is not making drastic adjustments because he can't.

You have to understand, the Pats offense and personnel is tailor-made to attack the Steelers. We don't draft LBs for coverage; we draft them for their pass-rush ability. You spread us out, limiting our ability to disguise blitzes, and then kill us with underneath routes with excellent short area pass catchers (Welker, Gronk, plus your pass-catching RBs...I remember Faulk was a matchup nightmare for us too). Unlike, say, the Giants in '07, we need these LBs to generate a pass rush; we can't just rush 4 and expect our DL (who are designed almost exclusively to stop the run and maintain gap responsibilities in our 3-4) to consistently generate pressure.

Compounding this is that our CBs are still probably our weakest defensive link. Not Taylor, whose reputation would be much better if it weren't for the CBs behind him; rather it's our #2 and #3 CBs who tend to be average on their best days, and pretty terrible on our worst. Not only are they lacking talent-wise, they're brought up for zone, not tight man coverage, and frequently give (too) large cushions since Lebeau's primary edict is to not give up the big play. Our safeties are not really cover safeties either, so we can't just lock up a safety (even Troy--God bless 'em, pure man coverage isn't a huge strength) on one of your TEs or RBs.

That all said there may be some truth to the notion that Pitt stubbornly wants to "do what they do" schematically and not make the degree of game-to-game adjustments that maybe NE does offensively. But in this instance, I really think that Lebeau may simply be handcuffed by some very bad matchups with New England's skill players.

lillloyd

 

[lillloyd]

Re: OPPOSING VIEWS: Roethlisberger Says He Has to Make Plays on His Own While Brady's

Let me just add the following regarding the original OP post:

• FWIW I honestly don't think there are many people--Steelers fans included--who actually believe that Ben is the equal to Brady. We have millions of fans, so there are bound to be a few outliers, but a few guys on the internet doesn't make a consensus.

• that doesn't mean that Roethlisberger isn't an excellent QB in his own right, it just means there aren't many Tom Bradys in the world. To ding Ben for "not being Brady", or to "ding" Brady for having the gall to compare Ben to him, unnecessarily diminishes both...this isn't a zero sum comparison

• Ben DOES hold the ball too long at times, and certainly he's no Brady or Manning when it comes to pre-snap reads. But if we're going to point out those weaknesses, let's also point out his strengths: he's an accurate down-the-field thrower, he's extremely efficient (consistently one of the highest YPA in the league), and his escapability and "sandlot" capabilities have been extremely effective in bigger games against stronger defenses (ones that can disrupt more traditional, rhythm passing offenses.)

• For the record, the Pitt offensive line is ABSOLUTELY one of the worst in football, and has been for some time now; the fact that Ben may hang onto the ball sometimes shouldn't obscure this fact. QBs like Brady and Brees would still be Pro Bowl QBs behind this line due to their superior decision-making, accuracy, and mental makeup...but there's no question that they'd consistently be taking hits, many of the brutal variety. Our sacks aren't solely due to Ben; very often he is immediately dodging defenders within a second or two of the snap (we're talking Bears OL/Cutler territory here!) I truly believe that a less mobile QB would be setting sack records behind this line, Ben's propensity to hold the ball notwithstanding.

• Finally re/ Ben's comments, I'd file them in the same "absolutely meaningless and overblown drivel" category as Brady's comments to his OL.

lillloyd