Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Nov 7, 2011.
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The oline play are the ones i think are getting not enough scrutiny.
If you notice, the OLine play starting deteriorating after Vollmer was inserted at RT. Solder has beaten him out of that job and has played great. His play alone during week one against a fully motived Cameron Wake should have signaled to BB that it was his job to lose.
What happens? Vollmer gets healthy, BB removes the better player and the OLine has taken a hit for hit. Vollmer has been getting beaten like rented mule alot.
The O-Line is playing fine. The hits and sacks that Brady has taken since the Jets game have, by and large, been coverage sacks.
If you again, you see that it is not necessarily true. I would have say that they are Brady's prefered player coverage sacks. Look for Welker, Branch and then Gronk. The rest are just decoys really.
The rest are decoys because they aren't getting open. Branch has lost a step and the middle of the field is getting flooded with Hernandez dictating some double coverages while recovering from injuries. Again, when the middle gets flooded, the TE's are taken out, and the defense is able to limit Welker, our offense gets bogged down.
Honestly, the wide receiver core outside of Welker is absolutely pitiful.
Branch: Old, lost a step, not a full time player anymore. Should be 3/4.
Ochocinco: Waste of space, and money. Terrible production for his cost.
Edelman: Has regressed somehow as a receiver since 2009.
Price: Complete unknown, can't make his way onto the field or stay healthy.
Welker is the only good player there right now.
That's just not true... Yesterday he was under pressure and hit and rushed a lot and the coverage made possible by the fact that the Giants were getting pressure rushing 4 was affecting his receivers performance with the exception of Welker...
They started bringing Solder in as a 6th TE/OL for a reason. But when they do that they conversely lose an option out in the pattern which makes coverage more difficult to beat.
Not sure I agree with this at all - we've been getting beaten at the line a lot recently, in both the running and passing game. There has just been way too many guys losing one on one battles along our OL. The only guy who hasn't struggled of late, to my eyes, is Brian Waters. Everyone else has been shaky.
And I agree with whoever said that Vollmer has struggled more than Solder. Solder has a propensity to hold, but he got away with it...so nothing wrong with that.
I'll agree the middle of the field is clogged and receivers have a lot to do with it - but I also think there's an awful lot of traffic in the pocket with just 3 or 4 man rushes, lately.
I think Light is still banged up going back to the ankle injury in the Cowboys game on the sneak. Vollmer is rusty. Mankins has let himself get taken out of games with his emotions twice this year, and has had costly false starts. Connolly is just an adequate center who is overpowered at times. That is the state of the line. Mankins, Light & Vollmer will all play better - I cannot say the same for Connolly.
This is so unfair for Ocho, he was open, he just got absolutely bad throws. I don't know why people are seeing the same thing yet making excuses for Brady.
He is off, has been off for a while now, was seeing ghost again in the first half, he settled down in the second half at least. He starts to duck way to early lately, whatever senses he had are now malfunctioning big time for him to feel pressure when it is not there and for this I blame the OL.
Who do the OL practice against at practice?
Solder hasn't "played great". He's been ok, but he's had some major issues that the rest of the line has had to cover for.
Vollmer's clearly having issues, but Solder's not been the great wall either.
Solder is the better RT right now and I have no idea why he lost a job that he earned with his solid early season performance.
Vollmer, oddly enough, like McCourty seems to be regressing from his early promise, Go Figure ? How does this happen ?
Because a healthy Vollmer is much better than a healthy Solder, and BB plans for the post season. You may not like it, but that's his M.O..
Let me beat the hell out of your back and then have you taking on 300+ pound men with bad intent. My guess is that you'll figure out how this happens pretty quickly.
As for McCourty, he's finally gotten his head out of his ass, and he's playing much better. Now, if the other DBs can follow suit, the team may be able to get something done.
This is what I've been noticing as well. The short/intermediate crossing and out routes are getting stuffed because of all the traffic that's going on. We need to send someone deep to create better passing lanes for Brady. We just don't throw the ball deep enough times to make teams respect that part of our game. Branch is not a deep threat, and Ocho for whatever reason, can't get in sync with Brady. To Ocho's defense though, he's been open deep several times this year and Brady has either waited too long to throw giving Ocho's cover guy time to catch up or Brady has underthrown the ball.
Not sure how vollmer is the cause of the entire line not playing well. Looking the past few games, the left side having difficult time blocking any kind of stunt rush. Light isn't doing well, mankin seem to worry too much about Connelly screwups.
The new philosophy is to clog and stuff the middle and dare Brady to throw deep, because his accuracy isn't there anymore. This isn't the same Brady from 2007- this is 5 years later and the long-range accuracy has already been eroding for some time now.
This is right up Rex Ryan's alley.
I'm not convinced Brady's long-range accuracy was ever THAT great. One of Moss's virtues was the ability to get to whereever the ball was coming down.
You can also say the same about the use of the running game once Woodhead and Faulk were injected into the lineup.
I wish they'd just use Green-Ellis for 80% of the RB snaps and use the other 3 sparingly.
We played the Giants. Their D-Line makes O-Lines look bad.
Oh that's reassuring. Phew, glad that's the case. Hopefully we don't run in to anymore of those nasty d-lines.
Waters and Solder have been the only consistent linemen this season. Light, Connolly and Mankins have been erratic and that's being charitable. Connolly has played better than he gets credit for though. When Wendell came in yesterday it was mayhem.
Vollmer has back issues so that's why he's been playing like complete crud. Solder has easily outplayed him at the RT spot but obviously you don't start the rookie at tackle if you can avoid it.
BTW, the last time the Pats had a trio like Waters, Solder and Gronk? Leon Gray, John Hannah and Russ Francis. Time will tell but they pass the eye test and remind me of those players when I watch them.
NOTE:I know Hannah was the best lineman of all time. I don't need a lecture. Solder has the feet to make it to the Hall of Fame is all I'm saying.
Brady has never had great long-range accuracy. 2007 was a fluke (long-range-wise), probably due to an willing-to-exert-himself-for-once Moss.
You need to dust off the abacus: 2011-2007 = 4
Of course our OL is going to struggle when you pass the ball 90 times a game. Run the ******* ball and let them go on the offensive for a change.
This is probably the best OL we've had talent wise and it's all going to waste.
Man reading/hearing things like this really stings. Not saying it's not true, but I'm no where near ready to accept these facts as truth.
I'm going to have a really tough time in a few years when Brady hangs it up. Sounds dumb, but it's going to be pretty tough.
Thank you for backing me up on this one as you watch a lot of film yourself, but I'm not sure that Brady's deep ball is eroding as much as you're making it out to be. In Moss' last couple of years here, he was constantly being double teamed and just didn't have the speed that he used to in order to beat it anymore. Since the first half of 2010, Brady hasn't had a true deep threat, but has hit it a good amount of times when it's been open (Slater earlier in the season). Is the deep ball what it was in 2007? No. But nothing will be as it was in 2007.
the problem with this team is they ant a team... no return game on ST Defense last in the NFL runing game even with 5 backs on the roster is still not there if Brady dose not play great they cant beat a good team
I'm not worried bout Brady, I think the legit lack of any sort of threat on the outside hurts all 3 ranges of the passing game. Short, middle, or deep.
lulz...where do you take this his long range accuracy isn't there crap?
He is 2nd in the league with plays of 20+ yards. Aaron Rodgers leads the league in plays of 40+ yards. Brady drops to #15. All the guys that are ahead of Brady have stud receivers on the outside. Now i ain't no BB but that leads me to believe the problem is not Brady's accuracy but rather the guys he has available to throw the ball to. We have no deep threat. Brady is playing pretty damn well considering the lack of a deep threat means alot less room to work with.
Giants deep threat was injured and not playing and yet their WR's/TE's got opened.........Kevin Gilbride >>>>>>>> Bill O'Brien.
Bill O'Brien is the worst OC the Pats have had in a long time. He stinks at in-game adjustments and has no imagination with respect to changing schemes/plays to give players a better chance to get opened. Not to mention he affinity to pass, pass and pass some more when he has a very good run blocking OL that is being under utilized.
How about....say...don't turn the ball over four times; especially on your own ten yard line.
If Sunday's game had Peyton Manning associated with it; patsfans.com would be all over the excuse making and blame game associated with the loss.
Besides, if the were so many huge problems on Sunday, how exactly does one explain the fact that the last four drives went:
Oline/WR/TE/RB "problems" have nothing to do with ball security.
I guess Peyton has always been able to throw everyone under the bus because it's an effective operating method.
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