Rivers gets new contract... implications for re-signing Brady

[mgcolby]

I'm done, a strawman argument is when you have total belief in one metric. And resort to semantics to argue it all the while ignoring a multitude of facts and stats that prove your metric and your premise is wrong.

I have showed you TD-INT, Yards per point, yards per td pass, yards per int, stats against the same competition with similar defenses and all of them show that your opinion is wrong. Yet, you ignore all of that and choose to dance around them and resort to the DVOA metric.

Bottom line: in the same division against the same competition (minus two games, which favors Cutler) with similar defenses, Rivers was efficient and Cutler was anything but!

I'm done!

 

[Rob0729]

And, if you're D puts your QB in a crappy position, you'll lose too. IE, 2005, and 2006.

Funny, the 2006 season had a pretty good defense other than the AFC Championship game. It was also a season where the Pats beat Rivers and the Chargers eventhough the Chargers gave Brady fits (Rivers BTW, completed 43.8% of his passes for 230 yards, 0 TDs, and 1 INT).

As for the 2005 season, the Pats lost the game in Denver because of 5 turnovers (2 on special teams) and a couple of bad PI calls that gave the Broncos great field position (including first and goal on the one in one instance).

 

[Synovia]

I have showed you TD-INT, Yards per point, yards per td pass, yards per int, stats against the same competition with similar defenses !

Except, as I've pointed out, they're not similar defenses.

 

[Synovia]

I'm done, a strawman argument is when you have total belief in one metric.!

You should really look that word up, because you have no idea what it means.

 

[Rob0729]

Correct, but seeing how all the players we're talking about have thrown 500+ passes the last couple of years, its pretty irrelevant.

Seriously, are you that dumb? Look up hyperbole. My point is that it doesn't differentiate between a QB who doesn't pass the ball that much on a run oriented team and team that passes a lot and is a pass first team. The more you pass, the less efficient you are no matter how good you are.

its not recognized by anyone in the NFL? Are you ****ting me? For real? Are you that ignorant? Are you really a patriots fan? The patriots are the most statistically oriented team in football.

When was the last time Belichick talked about anyone's DVOA? The only time I have heard anyone in New England in the media talk about DVOA is when they have someone from Football Outsider on their show. I have never heard anyone employed by the league or any team mention DVOA.

According to who? you? Are you an NFL scout now?

According to everyone. Even Cutler supporters said he had the potential to be elite, not that he is elite. But then again, most of them only had to go on watching him play and breaking down game film on the guy which is irrelevant if you look at his DVOA.

So, its not about performance? Its about being old?

It is about consistency. So if Kevin O'Connell plays one game for an injured Brady and has a 70% DVOA, does that make him an elite QB? You need to amass a body of work to prove you are elite. Elite cannot be judged on a season or two.

 

[jcdavey]

long story short, cutler's a douchebag lol

 

[Wildo7]

victory - Synovia IMO.

I don't understand why everything has to be a slight against the Pats to acknowledge other QBs besides Brady.

 

[RobertWeathers]

victory - Synovia IMO.

I don't understand why everything has to be a slight against the Pats to acknowledge other QBs besides Brady.

Synovia was not slighting the Pats or Brady. Thats not the way I took it. His arguement was that statistically speaking, Rivers is an "elite" QB and is on the same plane at Brady. I personally am not quite ready to call Rivers an elite QB. Let alone Cutler. Those two are immensly talented, but have a ways to go.

 

[Rob0729]

victory - Synovia IMO.

I don't understand why everything has to be a slight against the Pats to acknowledge other QBs besides Brady.

It isn't a slight against the Patriots, it is a slight against intelligence. We aren't talking about true elite QBs like Roethlisberger or Brees who deserve this honor. We are talking one year performers like Cutler and Rivers. BTW, how many QBs can be in an elite status before they are no longer elite? Ten?!? Twenty?!? Thirty-two?!? Maybe a few back ups too?

Seriously, Brady and Manning are the true elite. Roethlisberger and Brees are the sub-elite. Rivers and Cutler are in a category with Warner, Rodgers, and McNabb. When you start to have 5 or 6 QBs in the category of elite in a league of 32 starters, you are using the term too loosely. You cannot make the argument that Cutler or Rivers are more deserving to be in that category than Roethlisberger or Brees.

BTW, based on Synovia's DVOA, Romo and David Garrard had better DVOA than Cutler in 2007. So let's not forget to put them in the elite ranks too.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It isn't a slight against the Patriots, it is a slight against intelligence. We aren't talking about true elite QBs like Roethlisberger or Brees who deserve this honor. We are talking one year performers like Cutler and Rivers. BTW, how many QBs can be in an elite status before they are no longer elite? Ten?!? Twenty?!? Thirty-two?!? Maybe a few back ups too?

Seriously, Brady and Manning are the true elite. Roethlisberger and Brees are the sub-elite. Rivers and Cutler are in a category with Warner, Rodgers, and McNabb. When you start to have 5 or 6 QBs in the category of elite in a league of 32 starters, you are using the term too loosely. You cannot make the argument that Cutler or Rivers are more deserving to be in that category than Roethlisberger or Brees.

What Synovia is trying to do is make the argument based purely on statitical reasoning. With QBs, IMO you can't.

Take Big Ben as an example. I'm sure the analysis say that Rivers is the better Qb, but if the game was on the line or you need a proven leader in the huddle who can certainly function as a QB, who would you want?

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, in 2008, Cutler had the 7th highest DVOA ranking behind Brees, Manning, Rivers, Warner, Pennington, and Ryan. In 2007, Cutler was 11th in DVOA ratings behind Brady, Manning, Favre, Romo, Brees, Palmer, Garrard, Roethlisberger, Garcia, and Sage Rosenfels. If being 7th best one year and 11th best the next year in DVOA QB rating isn't elite, I don't know what is.

 

[Rob0729]

What Synovia is trying to do is make the argument based purely on statitical reasoning. With QBs, IMO you can't.

Take Big Ben as an example. I'm sure the analysis say that Rivers is the better Qb, but if the game was on the line or you need a proven leader in the huddle who can certainly function as a QB, who would you want?

The problem is Synovia's stats doesn't even support his argument because based on his own stats, Cutler is not elite.