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Rivers gets new contract... implications for re-signing Brady

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Aug 24, 2009.

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  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I was kindof hoping that Rivers contract renewal would be put off til next season and a potential uncapped year... mainly so the Pats could wait until the 2010 contract year themselves and get Brady done before Rivers set the bar any higher than Manning's contract.

    Actually I was hoping that Brady's could get redone before both Manning and Rivers were next season but that obviously wasn't in the plans of the Giants or Chargers.

    Philip Rivers gets his big contract | ProFootballTalk.com

    Now the bar is set a bit higher - though luckilly only a bit, as whether its $34 million guranteed or $38.5 million guranteed it's still a lot of money - but not something that's impossible to do.

    Heck - someone once said "it is what it is" - and I don't think any of us expect that Brady will re-sign on the cheap. I guess the question becomes whether younger but less successful QBs deserve more, less, or the same amount as an older Brady with 3 rings (and hopefully 4 by next season). I guess on the bright side we're not talking about dropping nearly that much in guaranteed money on an uproven rookie QB like the Raiders did with Russell.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2009
  2. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    lol that isn't the question... obviously we're sticking with Brady for awhile, as evidenced by the Cassel trade. It'll be interesting to see the comparative QB values though.
  3. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The cap was $85M when Tommy signed his $10M AAV deal. But he saw over $36M in the first three ergo that was implicitly guaranteed. The cap now is approaching $130M. These signings are not a problem. Unless you expected Tom to give ever increasing discounts going forward... As it did before his new deal, depending on how early or late it's signed, will average between 10-12% of cap. That is where BB slots a franchise QB.
  4. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    I'm happy for these other QB's to take massive money contracts as it detracts from the money being spent elsewhere. TB12 realises this and if he truly wants to keep the Patriots a perennial contender, the slice of the pie needs to be shared around, not dominated by a few.
  5. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's the % that matters, not the dollars. As long as the guy is worth it. Tom won't push the limit, in fact he will likely remain a hair below maxing it while some inch a hair above.
  6. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You know exactly what I am talking about though.. % of the cap does = a dollar amount.
  7. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Well, just to quote myself, I want to re-emphasize that no one doubts that the Patriots can re-sign Brady. Nor do I think that level of guaranteed money means that the days of having a well rounded quality team are over... in short MoLewisRocks is correct, these contracts aren't unmanageable.

    Some have speculated that Brady wouldn't mind playing for the team he grew up a fan of, but I don't see him doing that.

    There are some legitimate questions about the length of contract as the statistics don't show a long list of 39 year old QBs playing at the top of their game... so the length and structure of the eventual contract will bear watching... i.e. perhaps it's a 6 year contract for cap purposes but in reality the 6th year might never come to be etc... (or 5th year for that matter).

    But then again, with the CBA expiring and the potential for an uncapped 2010, they might never be able to put the genie back in the bottle and salary cap considerations themselves might be moot
  8. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yup, but these guys aren't taking up too much for a franchise QB. It's debateable either one is worth it compared to Tommy and Peyton, but those two aren't available so you sign the franchise QB you believe you have and hope he's good enough because the alternative (not having one) bites...

    The cap is now just under $130M. In 6 years it will be approaching $160M conservatively speaking. If it doesn't come back smart teams will remain in that range. The only problem would arise is if revenue sharing went away. For some time now the TV deals which are pooled revenue fund the cap thereby leveling the financial playing field. The Giants would survive absent revenue sharing because they just opened a new stadium. SD would be screwed because they don't have one and struggle to sell out as is.

    Believe me teams are better off paying $15M per for their QB than not remotely having just the one to hand that money to... Which is why those who were stunned when Matt got $10M+ per on his long term deal are just silly and obviously don't grasp value. Having that guy (bonefide starter) on your team is key to succeeding. What you pay him is secondary within a pretty steep range. Paying that guy only represents a problem when you guess wrong (as in with the rookies). Atlanta and Baltimore are not presently exhibiting any regrets (although each had some recently for different reasons...). Oakland and Tennessee and Arizona aren't so happy (and are paying multiple starters probably more than Eli and Philip are getting).
  9. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Eli, definitely not, but Rivers? Rivers might be worth more than Manning and Brady simply because he's already elite, and hes only now coming into his prime. Manning and Brady you're talking about 4 more years of elite performance. Rivers? Maybe 10.

    The Gints really got screwed on that trade.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Brady/Manning sign deals that are in the 18-20M/year range though.
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Peyton wouldn't surprise me, his cap # is there already. Tommy won't push for that.

    As for Rivers, I know he puts up stats but for a lot of reasons I just don't percieve him or Eli as elite or one as particularly better than the other. Elite QB's carry teams. They are few and far between. We're lucky to have one.
  11. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Rivers is an elite QB. So was Cutler in Denver. Both teams have had elite offenses with terrible defenses the last couple years.

    Rivers was 2nd in DVOA last year, behind only Peyton. Brees was 3rd. The only year Brady has been better than Rivers was last year, is 2007.





    Brady's last deal had $39M for the first 3 years. The cap has gone from $85M to >$130M. So pretty much anything less than $59M for the first 3 years is him taking a pay cut. I don't think he will
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  12. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Wow. Take a breath.
  13. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    If that's the case, then clearly that stat needs to be rethought b/c its basis is absurd on its face.
  14. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Do you realize how good Rivers was last year? You don't, because you're a homer.


    312/478 for 4000 yds, 66% completion, 34 TDs, 11 Ints, sacked 25 times


    Brady's best year prior to 2007:

    334/530 for 4100 yds, 63% completion, 26 Td, 14 Ints, sacked 26 times

    or

    373/601 for 3700 yds, 62% completion, 28 Td, 14 ints, sacked 31 times
  15. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

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    ironically, people want to hate rivers because of the media attack on him after that 2007 christmas eve game vs cutler and denver

    i say it's ironic, because it's the same media they claim to hate...yet they line up as sheep for that media
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  16. lurker1965

    lurker1965 Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    Yes, Brady sucks. He is only a system QB. On the Indy Star board you are a genius.
  17. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Could you please quote where I said Brady was a "system QB". No, you can't, because I didn't, and you're a troll.


    Brady is fantastic, but so is Rivers. It is possible to have more than one elite QB in the league, isnt it?
  18. lurker1965

    lurker1965 Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    Rivers carried the Chargers. They won't admit it, but LT has been done since sitting on the sideline.

    (Yes, I know he had a 3.8ypc season last year, but that was his worst not counting his rookie year.)
  19. lurker1965

    lurker1965 Rookie

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    Dear Charger fan,

    The "system" QB think is a charge leveled by fools basing their argument on "individual" stats. Like you are doing.

    I apologize for that if you are a Charger fan. You will not get that reference.

    If you are a Patriot fan, Donkey*, you should have gotten the reference if you have two brain cells.

    As for the rest, look up hyperbole sometime.

    *You called me a troll, so complaining about name calling is disingenious. You opened the door I walked through, Eeyore.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  20. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Synovia- I think people are interpreting you as believing that Rivers is just as good of a QB as Brady. As you can imagine on this board, you are inviting conflict.

    For the record...

    In one post you say Brady is worth 20m more guaranteed than Rivers. We all agree with you on some level.

    In another post, you say that Rivers is statistically on-par with Brady. Based purely on statistical career averages, your arguement has some validity.

    You argue that Rivers is an elite QB. I think you need to define what elite means to you for the forum so you can dig yourself out of this....

    My .02$
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
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