Richard Seymour: "We were outcoached"

[JoeSixPat]

I'm sure this was probably discussed in some other thread, but given a rare comment from a Patriots player publically criticizing his coach, I just figured its probably worth some further discussion.

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=167033

I'm not in disagreement with Seymour - and I understand he likely wasn't singling out BB - but I'm still surprised he said it.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

I can't disagree with him either. But I have noticed Seymour has been a little less discrete with the things he says this year versus prior times. Maybe a result of Willie being gone and him trying to take on a new role.

Are we talking about a trend? Or the law of averages? Is it nothing to worry about? Or is it another sign of a decline that seemingly began after the Pats? Super Bowl win over Philadelphia nearly two years ago? Since that game, the Pats are 5-10 against winning teams.

Thats an interesting factoid I wasn't aware of. I hope it's not a telling sign of things.

 

[BelichickFan]

I think everyone is making a bigger deal out of it than it is. That's what Belichick says after every loss "outplayed and outcoached". Seymour just repeated the same thing.

 

[RhodyPatFan]

Seymour is alive.

I've been looking for him lately almost forgot he was on this team. This season he's been the third best DL we have (behind Warren and Wilfork). And Green is possibly making him #4 (Green has 3 less tackles and 2.5 more sacks than Big Sey). BB should tell this guy to start playing like they are paying him to play. And try to stay healthy for once.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Seymour is alive.

I've been looking for him lately almost forgot he was on this team. This season he's been the third best DL we have (behind Warren and Wilfork). And Green is possibly making him #4 (Green has 3 less tackles and 2.5 more sacks than Big Sey). BB should tell this guy to start playing like they are paying him to play. And try to stay healthy for once.

Maybe his injury is the factor but I somewhat agree.

I sit right behind the defensive bench in row one. Every year, likely unbeknownst to the fans, the D rotation ALWAYS has Sey sit out one or more entire defensive series. This is nothing new and has nothing to do with Pees as DC vs predecessors. Sunday, as the game progressed Sey did sit out more than usual. This week perrenial inactive Marquise Hill was finally game activated. We all know that 'stealth' All-Pro Warren was OUT. The D was Green-Wilfork-Seymour. When Sey went out Hill went in. Something is wrong with Seymour's play. I watched Hill specificly. For 2 series he remained standing even with run plays to his side. Shortly thereafter, Hill was replaced by Wright for the remainder of the game. Hill is a complete waste of roster space.

Sey and Brady are not playing up to potential. Injury, whatever. This season, sad to say they are the most over-rated Pats.

 

[Remix 6]

Seymour wasnt only 1..Vrabel said it too. lets not single out Sey.

 

[mavfan2390]

Teams are built from the inside out so the O line and D line really really need to step up. We aren't getting pressure from our D line which is amazing considering many of us (myself included) believe that our D line is the best in the league. We have 3 pro bowl worthy players who although I admit are more geared to stop the run should be getting more pressure and simply over powering the other teams O line. The pressure (or lack thereof) is resulting in big pass plays for offenses. That being said, like usual our Run D is SUPERB, but I would love to see Jarvis Green in there more often.

Our O line is PITIFUL. We're middle of the road in almost EVERY offensive category. All of that it not Brady's/ recievers fault (although they should shoulder some of the blame). Our run blocking has been good overall but inconsistent. Our two backs are averaging a respectable 4.4 ypc and 4.2 ypc. The pass blocking has been absolutely horrendous. No one can seem to hold their blocks long enough for Gabriel, Watson, and Caldwell to get open. WE MISS DANIEL GRAHAM BADLY. WE CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE HIM THIS OFFSEASON!!!!! In my humble opinion he is more valuable then what's his face. Not only does he give Brady a reliable target, he gives Brady time to throw which obviously Brady is becoming desperate for. This offseason I'd like to see the Pats sign or draft a better tackle, and upgrade one of the OLB's for a better pass rush.

All in all things are looking up as Ryan O' C. will only get better, Harrison and Graham should be back in time for the real season, and Brady should become more comfortable with Jackson.

 

[RhodyPatFan]

If Daniel Graham was healthy every season I'd say resign him. However, he's gonna want lots of money and for a guy that is constantly hurt he wont get it from the Pats and I dont blame them. He simply can't stay healthy and its a waste to overpay for a guy thats always injured. I just dont see us keeping him.

 

[PonyExpress]

BB admits that he's been outcoached every time the Pats lose, and sometimes when they win (SB 38). BB knows his limitations and respects his opponents. That's partly what makes him a great coach, just like it made Einstein a great physicist ("The more I know the more I realize I know nothing"). I do think Seymour has been getting a bit "talky" ever since he signed his contract. Going into detail about his injuries, voicing his opinions about Deion Branch, etc. But if he heals and starts playing like the Seymour of old, he can curse BB out in public and even the coach won't care.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

I think Seymoer should start playing like a franchise player before mouthing off about coaches and players..

 

[primetime]

I think Seymoer should start playing like a franchise player before mouthing off about coaches and players..

I got through an entire page without reading anything like this, but unfortunately someone did in fact beat me to the punch. Ty Warren (and to a lesser extent, Vince Wilfork) has been the superstar of the defense and Seymour has disappeared.

 

[RayClay]

I'm sure this was probably discussed in some other thread, but given a rare comment from a Patriots player publically criticizing his coach, I just figured its probably worth some further discussion.

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=167033

I'm not in disagreement with Seymour - and I understand he likely wasn't singling out BB - but I'm still surprised he said it.

When you put quotation marks around something people assume that's the exact quote, at least I do.

"No excuse. They outplayed us and out-coached us"

Not quite the same. In fact I'd interpret it more as being beat in every phase of the game than throwing the coach under the bus.

 

[DarrylS]

I got through an entire page without reading anything like this, but unfortunately someone did in fact beat me to the punch. Ty Warren (and to a lesser extent, Vince Wilfork) has been the superstar of the defense and Seymour has disappeared.

I see this all the time, last year when he was praised for the most part he does not show up in the box score.. when he is in he is often double teamed, thus allowing Warren and Wilfork single coverage. He is also hurt, could take the easy road, but he is choosing to play. The bottom line in a 3-4 defense, the linemen take on differing roles and for the most part do not show up in the box score.. I cannot often tell how well he is playing from watching the TV, when I get a chance to go to a game I can key on him and have always been amazed how he is a man amongst kids.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

i agree with the "outcoached" sentiment on offense, not defense. while the defensive front was pushed around on the nine minute drive and didn't get a quick stop in the closing minutes, we can't forget that two of the three Jets' scores were off turnovers. on offense, however, i don't think there's any way we can look at our confusion against the blitz and the disjointed and inconsistent play calling and not suggest that there were serious shortcomings in the game plan and how it was adapted to the conditions on the field.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

When you put quotation marks around something people assume that's the exact quote, at least I do.

"No excuse. They outplayed us and out-coached us"

Not quite the same. In fact I'd interpret it more as being beat in every phase of the game than throwing the coach under the bus.

This is the deal right here. Joesixpat is normally more rational than to misquote a guy and take it out of context, but let's just not make this thread into something it is not. Read Seymour's exact wording and he is simply repeating Belichick.

I hope a week from now we are not all still claiming that Seymour said something out of line. As for his play, he is currently playing with a cast and it was a teammate that did the damage. Not exactly Seymour's fault. A lot of his other injuries where also caused by other players, such as Kevin Mawae. He is still a solid player, but currently not at 100%.

 

[vyrago]

As someone else noted, Vrabel said much of the same thing and added the failure to make adjustments. I thought he was talking specifically about offensive adjustments.

It shocked me when I heard the same thing from these two players, but perhaps I've missed it when other players have said it before.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

I think the Pats were outcoached on D as well. The footing was awful. The CBs should have been bumping the receivers *hard* at the line of scrimmage, causing them to lose balance. The DL and LBs were having trouble getting pressure with no footing/leverage (like the snow bowl) and thus receivers were getting open underneath. A good bump would have slowed this down.

Regards,
Chris

 

[primetime]

I see this all the time, last year when he was praised for the most part he does not show up in the box score.. when he is in he is often double teamed, thus allowing Warren and Wilfork single coverage. He is also hurt, could take the easy road, but he is choosing to play. The bottom line in a 3-4 defense, the linemen take on differing roles and for the most part do not show up in the box score.. I cannot often tell how well he is playing from watching the TV, when I get a chance to go to a game I can key on him and have always been amazed how he is a man amongst kids.

Too many people give him a free pass because he is double teamed and thus can't put up big time stats. Much of the time I see him being beaten by a single blocker while big Vince grabs a double team and Warren beats the piss out of his blocker. I don't know why people refuse to acknowledge that Warren could be a better defensive lineman than Seymour. The line seems to play better when it's Warren and Green at the ends, and in this alignment Warren theoretically would draw the double team but still manages to dominate.

 

[italian pat patriot]

i love Richard Seymour and i consider him a force but against expecially the Jets he playied one of his worst games

he was benched surely more then expected

and what he said after the game and what we read it is simply the true and expected (i do not want 'read between it')

still i expect from him the maximum every game starting immediately @ Gb