RFA Tenders: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR [merged]

[JackBauer]

Re: Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]Merged several times

Why? I'd take a 2nd rounder for Gostkowski any day. Kicker might be an undervalued position, but it's not irreplaceable. Especially not for a draft pick that high.

Because essentially trading an All-Pro caliber kicker for a draft pick is just inane, that's why.

If sure if you went and asked a number of the playoff teams from last season, they'd likely agree.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]Merged several times

Why? I'd take a 2nd rounder for Gostkowski any day. Kicker might be an undervalued position, but it's not irreplaceable. Especially not for a draft pick that high.

You're overrating the value of a second round pick and underrating the value of a quality kicker. This year's playoffs should have really gotten people on board about the importance of a reliable kicker.

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

Re: Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]Merged several times

I really like Gostkowski and I'd be happy with him as our kicker for a very long time but not only am I not worried about him leaving through an offer sheet, I hope he does. A kicker just isn't worth a 2nd rounder in my opinion.

Brandon Marshall and Ray Edwards are out there for a 1st, Richard Marshall for a 2nd, Boldin for a 3rd, Kirk Morrison for a 3rd, etc. I'd love to see us grab another significant asset like a 2nd rounder for a kicker with all that's out there on the trade market/restricted free agency market. Not gonna happen, though.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: So have we tendered anyone? [Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]

Yeah, can't wait to have Chris Hanson's facsimile attempt a game-winning FG.

5-8 from 40-49 is good. No better than that.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]Merged several times

You're overrating the value of a second round pick and underrating the value of a quality kicker. This year's playoffs should have really gotten people on board about the importance of a reliable kicker.

When we drafted Ghost in round 4, a lot of people thought we were crazy for taking a kicker that high - if someone wants to trade a 2nd rounder for Ghost, I'd probably be OK with it. He's a great kicker, but the best kicker in this year's draft could probably be had with a 4th or 5th or 6th, etc

 

[JackBauer]

Re: So have we tendered anyone? [Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]

5-8 from 40-49 is good. No better than that.

I'm glad that 40-49 is now the sole metric when evaluating a FG kicker.

Furthermore, I'm sure AV never had similar numbers during any of his years as a NE Patriot.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]Merged several times

You want to know the value of a kicker just ask the colts who where booted out of the playoffs year after year until they signed AV

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]Merged several times

You want to know the value of a kicker just ask the colts who where booted out of the playoffs year after year until they signed AV

That argument's about as logical as saying that Plaxico Burress is in prison b/c he caught the winning touchdown in that game that must not be named.

OTOH, Cincinnati and San Diego might know a thing or two about the importance of kickers. . . . :bricks:

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: So have we tendered anyone? [Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]

I'm glad that 40-49 is now the sole metric when evaluating a FG kicker.

It's not but any decent kicker can make the shorter ones.

Gotti was 16th in the league in FG% despite trying only 3 of 50 or greater.

2009 NFL Player Kicking Stats - National Football League - ESPN

He's a good FG and a very good kickoff guy. But I'd trade him for a #2 pick and I doubt he gets an offer from another team.

 

[Disco Volante]

The best kicker in the league last year and statistically the most accurate kicker in NFL history, All-Pro Nate Kaeding choked for the Chargers last year...

 

[Christopher Patriot]

What is one player available right now that you see as a must have? rather rfa or ufa? I have to go with Peppers just due to the fact he is the only player that has the potential to be special and I mean defensive mvp special for our style of defense he said he wanted to play in a 3-4 I think He clearly makes us without a doubt favorites in the AFC East, Plus we don't have to give up compensation the more I think of it the more I think he will be a Patriot. The redskins have nobody at QB, it takes at least 2 years to rebuild that team. Peppers has played for a underachieving team before. Year after year of this is what left him disenchanted with the Panthers. Then you have Chicago? Please Jay the interception Machine Cutler no threat of a running game, Mediocre coaching staff, I don't see him being too thrilled. Philadelphia, Mcnabb's struggles to win the big one very well documented Philly runs an attacking 4-3, they have a owner who would cut him before he got to the heavy part of his contract, ala westbrook, a almost new dc. Then you have us, the most successful team this decade, A amazing coach, motivator in BB, the feeling your in every game with Brady behind center, a strong tradition in New England. Plus he witnessed us beat him in his only Superbowl, as long as our offer isn't greatly under I see him in a flying elvis by tomorrow. The more I think about it the more confident I grow.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: So have we tendered anyone? [Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]

It's not but any decent kicker can make the shorter ones.

Gotti was 16th in the league in FG% despite trying only 3 of 50 or greater.

2009 NFL Player Kicking Stats - National Football League - ESPN

He's a good FG and a very good kickoff guy. But I'd trade him for a #2 pick and I doubt he gets an offer from another team.

Of course, due to the vagaries of kicking in the NFL, using a limited snapshot like the one you've just presented is borderline useless.

Gostkowski hit 83.9 of his field goals last season, the lowest percentage of his three-year career.

By comparison:

In 1996, Vinatieri hit 77.1 percent.
In 1998, he hit 79.5 percent.
In 1999, he hit 78.8 percent.
In 2000, he hit 81.8 percent.
In 2001, he hit 80 percent.
In 2003, he hit 73.5 percent.
In 2005, he hit 80 percent.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The best kicker in the league last year and statistically the most accurate kicker in NFL history, All-Pro Nate Kaeding choked for the Chargers last year...

Kaeding is cooked. Absolutely brutal in the post-season. Reminds me of how Vanderjadt melted down....

Losing Gost would be tough. Hes playoff-proven and very good. But if getting a 2nd rounder for him and using that as currency to acquire an impact player at CB, LB, RB, etc. it needs to be considered.

Just gotta wait and see what the demand will be. If it's Janikowski money being thrown around by some nutty team, perhaps the best decision would be to move on and draft/sign a replacement.

 

[dhamz]

Roughly 2 months ago the Saints were thought to have kicking problems and the Chargers thought to be real good at that spot. Turned out that when it got to a big spot it was the opposite.

Ghost has a mixed history in big spots - he was very good in 2006 and very shaky in 2007 culminating in a kick-off shanked so wildly out of bounds in the Super Bowl that BB wanted nothing to do with him kicking another FG.

Ghost is a pretty good kicker - especially on kick-offs. He's a guy I hope they keep but if someone wants to give us a #2 pick, I'm OK with it. He is not impossible to replace.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ghost has a mixed history in big spots - he was very good in 2006 and very shaky in 2007 culminating in a kick-off shanked so wildly out of bounds in the Super Bowl that BB wanted nothing to do with him kicking another FG.

.

Forgot about that..Hmmmm.

 

[JackBauer]

But if getting a 2nd rounder for him and using that as currency to acquire an impact player at CB, LB, RB, etc. it needs to be considered.

But that's not the calculation because it totally ignores the risk involved (which is actually two-fold). It's not like the transaction is simply Gostkowski ---> impact player.

1.) The risk that the second rounder you receive for Gostkowski doesn't pan out (and, as we've seen with the Patriots' drafts, their record in the second round is mixed).

2.) The risk that they are unable to adequately replace Gostkowski.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: So have we tendered anyone? [Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]

Of course, due to the vagaries of kicking in the NFL, using a limited snapshot like the one you've just presented is borderline useless.

Gostkowski hit 83.9 of his field goals last season, the lowest percentage of his three-year career.

By comparison:

In 1996, Vinatieri hit 77.1 percent.
In 1998, he hit 79.5 percent.
In 1999, he hit 78.8 percent.
In 2000, he hit 81.8 percent.
In 2001, he hit 80 percent.
In 2003, he hit 73.5 percent.
In 2005, he hit 80 percent.

So what ? I'd trade him for a #2 also.

You won't convince me and I won't convince you. IMO good kickers are a dime a dozen and I'd take a #2 any day for Gotti.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: So have we tendered anyone? [Update: Mankins 1+3, Gost 2, Woods ROFR]

So what ? I'd trade him for a #2 also.

You won't convince me and I won't convince you. IMO good kickers are a dime a dozen and I'd take a #2 any day for Gotti.

Well, that's an interesting position for you to take. Thankfully I'm confident the FO doesn't share your view.

 

[rbh24]

Keep the Ghost nI'd say he will get an offer sheet from some team but the Pats will match.

 

[Metaphors]

Roughly 2 months ago the Saints were thought to have kicking problems and the Chargers thought to be real good at that spot. Turned out that when it got to a big spot it was the opposite.

Ghost has a mixed history in big spots - he was very good in 2006 and very shaky in 2007 culminating in a kick-off shanked so wildly out of bounds in the Super Bowl that BB wanted nothing to do with him kicking another FG.

Ghost is a pretty good kicker - especially on kick-offs. He's a guy I hope they keep but if someone wants to give us a #2 pick, I'm OK with it. He is not impossible to replace.

And don't forget the missed 44 yd FG that would have brought the Pats to within 2 scores with 7+ minutes left against the Ravens. I like Ghost but he does worry me. The top PK's kick the ball on a line...if they miss, the line was off. Ghost tends to have a bend in his kicks and it seems like he aims the ball to compensate (not unlike my golf game). He definitely has the leg. Straighten out his trajectory and he becomes a weapon from distance. Not there yet.