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Revisiting The Richard Seymour Trade - Oakland Raiders Fans Not Happy

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by NG Pats Fan, Oct 9, 2012.

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  1. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan Rookie

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    Oakland Fans are NOT happy with the way things have played out. It appears they overpaid for a far past his prime former great who cannot get it done anymore

    Richard Seymour


    What do you guys think of the man we got in this trade, Nate Solder. Has he lived up to your expectations?
  2. Big-T

    Big-T Rookie

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    #51 Jersey

    New franchise LT + keeping Vince Wilfork beats keeping Richard Seymour every single time for me.
  3. RayClay

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    Yeah, let's judge the man's career by disgruntled message board posters.

    I was fine with the trade because he would have required a long term contract, Wilfork and others needed to be taken care of for the future, the pick projected to be very high (it wasn't) and Seymour had some wear and tear and it looked like a fair gamble based on risk reward.

    It isn't necessary to look back and call him a bum, because he's not and never was. He's one of the great linemen of this era and should be respected as such.

    He certainly wasn't washed up in an era where we were competitive yet failed to win the Super Bowl.

    Hindsight is 20-20 and messageboard posts aren't worth the cyberspace they're printed on as far as consistent analysis goes.

    We traded a great player and got a mid 1st round draft pick. It gave us the ability to sign other good/great players.

    Since we don't know how the future would have changed otherwise, nothing else can be implied from that IMO.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  4. Rob0729

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    Part of the reason why Raiders fans are upset was not the trade itself, but for the fact that they were forced to overpay him because they gave up a first rounder for him and couldn't cut ties when he showed to be a very good player and not an elite player.

    I would have loved to keep Seymour. But if it truly was an either/or between Wilfork and Seymour, the Pats made the correct choice.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  5. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    To me it's more about do we regret not planning to resign him. The trade is only an issue for hte 2009 season where even with Seymour the team would have gone nowhere.
    Truth is we'll never know if he'd have helped this team to a ring, or if he's worth the cash he was going to count against the cap. I do know these 2 things: Oakland fans are clearly not happy with him so signs point towards us making the correct move. Also in 2008 when he had one of his best most productive seasons, our pass rush was still crap and defensively as a whole we couln't get it done in the biggest games which ultimately decided our fate in that playoff race. I stand by BB's decision and if Solder turns out to be our franchise LT, that was really a heck of a trade.
  6. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    But have we won any SB's since Big-Sey left?:confused: Like BB said time and time again guys like Richard Seymour don't grow on trees. I still think we have won at least one of our last two SB's if we had him.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  7. DefenseRules

    DefenseRules Rookie

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    Wasn't he still on the team in 2007 when they went to the super bowl? :confused:
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  8. PatsDeb

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    I was okay with the trade then and I am more than okay with it now. I thought back then (and I still think now) that Seymour needed a change of scenery to be effective. It seems to have worked out okay for both sides notwithstanding the Oakland fans' 20/20 hindsight.
  9. jbb9s

    jbb9s Rookie

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    *compensation was deferred 1 season, ala the Branch trade of 2005/06 season. we all know what the 'chart of values' says about that.
  10. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    If we're gonna go revise history, why not say "what if we never signed Adalius and instead used some of that money to keep Wilfork AND Seymour"? Instead of drafting Chad Jackson, we draft Jennings. Hell, we could have traded the Maroney pick to move back and get Jones-Drew later on, add a pick and also pick Dumervil.
  11. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Pats got Solder and the Raiders got a very good defensive player. Looks like he's not a 'franchise' defensive player anymore but you have to expect that with age. Seymour's arrival in Oakland did help turn around that defense a little bit, but you can't expect a miracle from just one player. I mean look at the Bills, they shelled out 100m for Mario Williams and what has that gotten them? Same thing with Washington and 100m for Haynesworth. If Raiders fans are not happy with the trade too bad. Who would they have picked in 2011 at pick #17 that would help their team now? Heck that pick wouldn't be that late in the round if they didn't have Seymour helping their team. The grass is always greener it seems.
  12. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    The real problem with that trade was that Oakland didn't suck as badly as they should have. Solder was a nice pick up but if you look at some of the defensive talent that went at the top of that round, getting one of those guys might have made this a slam dunk success. How good would the defense be with one of these guys:

    #2 Von Miller
    #3 Darnell Dareus
    #5 Patrick Peterson
    #7 Aldon Smith
    #11 JJ Watt

    Stupid Raiders. They can't even lose correctly.
  13. PatsFan2

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    I get ya woulda...coulda...shoulda.
  14. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    I know the year we wanted them to lose is the year they actually won.:mad:
  15. Rob0729

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    Because there are no direct correlation between the examples you gave. It is the general understanding that the Pats felt they could only keep either Seymour or Wilfork and not both. They chose Wilfork.

    Also, who says it is revising history? We never know for sure what the Pats are thinking and what their real organizational system can and can't handle, but the general consensus of people in the know was that the Pats could only keep one of Wilfork and Seymour.

    To point out other bad moves they made are a bit of a red herring to divert from the original premise. Personally, I am more than happy to move on. Seymour has been gone for years and the Pats have been one drive away from winning a Super Bowl since. The Pats have moved on too.
  16. Rob0729

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    Yeah, the one year the Raiders are not a horrible team is the year that decided the pick the Pats would get from them them for the Seymour trade.
  17. Danger Zone

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    And on top of everthing mentioned above, it was my impression that Seymour was becoming disgruntled and acting out to the coaches in a way that can divide a locker-room.

    I thought the Patriots nipped a problem in the bud when they made the trade.

    If Im wrong I owe an apology to Seymour.
  18. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    We haven't won any SB's since 2004, Sey was here for 4 of those 7 seasons since. And there's zero proof to this claim I continue seeing that we'd have one+ more rings with Seymour:
    -You don't know that he would have been as effective post 2009 as he was before. BB has been watching him closer than any of us and probably has a far better idea how effective he would have been. Judging by the Raiders fans reactions, there's a decent chance he's NOT the Seymour we used to know.
    -You don't know if his play, even if it were up to par, would have actually made the difference with the secondary as horrible as it's been the past 2 seasons. The only time we've really been close to a title since he left is last year and who knows if he'd be able to mask that secondary.
  19. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    It wasn't as bad as the Ingram trade. We got Vereen and it put us in position to move up and get Chandler Jones.
  20. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    Seymour went to two pro-bowls and has been a steady locker room presence amidst the chaos his entire time in Oakland. Fans seem to forget how laughable that team was the several years leading up to when Seymour got there.
  21. BradyBranch39

    BradyBranch39 Rookie

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    You can't judge the trade based on the stupid contract they gave him way after the trade.
  22. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    Not having Solder now would be worse than what we would have gained from any of those players.
  23. Patsrock

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    Well he was on the 2007 teams FYI
  24. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Laughable. JJ Watt and Von Miller might have helped us win it all last year. Matt Light gets more money thrown his way and returns. We could have gotten our T this spring.
  25. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

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    Matt Light reveals decade-long battle with Crohn's - ESPN Boston I highly doubt they could've gotten Light to come back for reasonable money if at all.
  26. VJCPatriot

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    Can't change history but JJ Watt is the best defensive end in football right now. I think he would have made a big impact on our defense and he could have possibly made an impact on us winning it all in 2011. I mean if Watt batts down a Manning pass or forces him to get rid of the ball a split second too early in that game could have easily spelled the difference in the match.

    I don't regret ending up with Solder but I feel that Watt is far and away more of an impact playmaker if we are going to revise history.
  27. PatsDeb

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    AGreed. From what I have seen of Oakland it's their atrocious offense that has been the problem, not Seymour or their defense.
  28. BSR

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    With Scar doing his thing, I think we could have found a viable replacement if it meant picking up one of those guys. You can't coach the level of talent in those defensive players.
  29. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    I hated the trade at the time, because I thought that, with Seymour, we could have won another title in '09 (and/or in '10 if we'd found a way to tag/keep Seymour). People seem to have already forgotten how good he was, but he was pretty much impossible to run on and also generated a credible pass rush at the same time. Once-in-a-generation type talent at his best, and he was still pretty close to his prime.

    Over time, I've softened my stance. I still think that there's a >25% chance that this trade cost the Pats a fourth Lombardi, especially when the Ravens knocked us out at home in '09 by attacking where Seymour should have been (and remember, this was a year that a fairly unimposing Jets team went to the AFCCG). That said, if the economic reality was that it was literally impossible to keep both Seymour and Wilfork, then letting Seymour go was the right call. Wilfork's brought his game to a whole new level over the last couple of seasons, and Seymour isn't quite so valuable in the defense that the Pats run these days.

    On the Oakland side, I don't see what they're complaining about. Seymour has been a leader and an impact player for them, and they would have whiffed on the pick anyway.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  30. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    You'd rather have Solder than JJ Watt? Seriously?
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