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Restocking the Patriots: first notions (offense)

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Deus Irae, Feb 22, 2012.

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  1. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm bored, so I thought I'd do a quick fix thread about the offense, based upon current draft positions of soon-to-be rookies, and based upon the current FA crop. So, here goes:

    Draft Cox and Poe in the first round, and sign Sign Goldson/Branch/Griffin/Landry for defense, and then....

    Draft Adams

    Sign Lloyd
    Re-sign Welker
    Re-sign Koppen
    Re-sign Connolly
    Re-sign Branch
    Release Johnson
    Let BJGE walk (Unless he's willing to take committee RB money and he can be RB4)
    Convince Light and Waters to return

    Starters

    Light/Solder
    Mankins
    Koppen/Connolly
    Waters/Connolly
    Vollmer/Solder
    Gronk
    Hernandez
    Welker
    Lloyd
    Ridley
    Brady

    Bench

    Vereen
    Woodhead
    RB4
    Branch
    Adams
    Edelman
    Wendell
    Ohrnberger
    TE3/FB
    Mallett
    Hoyer
    Cannon (added when tatepatsfan noticed the oversight)

    Depending upon how the rest of the draft board falls, drafting another C and/or G could still be an option to compete against the likes of Wendell and Ohrnberger.


    Have at it. :)
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  2. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like it, but do you mean Dontari Poe in the first round, the mammoth 6'5 350 pound NT? Curious how you see using him with Wilfork and Love.
  3. tatepatsfan

    tatepatsfan Rookie

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    Maybe I am misreading it, but I think you left out Cannon. I feel confident he'll be on the team next year.

    I think BGJE is a very interesting free agent for us. It's been well documented how trustworthy he is, but then again, he's not really a "game changer" either. I'd like to see him back, but I really doubt we give him more than say 2 or 3 mil a season.

    Welker will almost certainly be back. I like bringing Branch back too, but only as a 3rd or 4th WR. At least one of Connolly or Koppen will be back. I'd like to see both back too.

    Convincing Light and Waters to retire is ideal, but might perhaps be easier said than done.
  4. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, sorry....

    Dontari Poe
    Fletcher Cox
    Joe Adams

    I'd initially look at Poe as backup NT, NT when Wilfork bounced outside, and part of the DT rotation when the Patriots went into sub packages.
  5. Zeus

    Zeus PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agree that they shouldn't overpay BJGE, although I think he's a better player than people generally think. You are putting a lot a faith in Ridely and Vereen. Would RB4 be a rookie or a veteran free agent?
  6. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh thanks, I also thought you ment Mike Adams too, lol.

    That'd actually be interesting, gives the pats alot of flexibility at the line. Wilfork-Poe-Love, ultimate run stuffers.
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Either would work. My guess is that, if the team lets BJGE walk, it'll be because they are confident in Ridley as the RB1, so the team will be looking for a rotation guy who can maybe get a couple of carries, but would be more important as an injury hedge.
  8. Zeus

    Zeus PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Even though we didn't see all that much of either Ridley or Vereen, the talent is evident. How much they improve with the benefit of a full offseason will be key. In particular, conditioning/durability, blitz pick-up and (especially) ball security will make or break these guys.
  9. Gronkandez

    Gronkandez Rookie

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    I agree with this.

    I think RB4 should be a good ST player a la Sammy Morris only not that old. Let BJGE walk.

    I don't think the Pats should re-sign Branch if they get Lloyd and draft Joe Adams. Welker/Lloyd/Edelman/Adams + Underwood or some other JAG is enough.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just to explain my reasoning behind the Branch re-signing here:

    1.) He'd be able to mentor Adams, who seems like he's got some of the same skills

    2.) If Adams isn't ready yet, Branch would work well in the empty backfield sets

    Lloyd
    Welker
    Gronk
    Hernandez
    Branch

    I think Branch is in decline, but I don't think we're looking at a complete breakdown, and I think he's still got another season of decent play left in him. I don't want him as a starter but, if he'll take an appropriate deal, I see him as still having real value to the team.
  11. Zeus

    Zeus PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agree again. Branch is still a more than serviceable player for the right money and (as you point out) in the proper role. His understanding of the offense and his connection with Brady can't be easily replaced on the open market.

    The key here is Lloyd. The more I think about it, the more I feel that he is absolutely ideal for this offense. (Apologies - I'm reluctant to even bring this up but had they acquired Lloyd during the season when they had the chance, there probably would have been a parade in Boston instead of NY.)
  12. Gronkandez

    Gronkandez Rookie

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    I respect what Branch has done for this team but at this point, where his skills are now, I want him out. It'll make me mad if they bring him back.

    Same with BJGE. It's nice that he's the anti-Maroney, always falls forward and never fumbles but PLEASE give me a guy who can make the defense pay with a big run. Ridley and Vareen are those guys. No need to keep an RB4 with no ST ability for five runs/game.
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One change needs to be made already, apparently. The Patriots have apparently released Ohrnberger (Just saw another thread title claiming he and Wright have been let go), so he can be removed from the backups list.
  14. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    I agree with the general premise of all these moves. Here are the items I would raise:

    1) I would place some importance on getting a #3 TE who's ready to contribute (no doubt BB will be drafting one at some point again this year). As it stands today, an injury to either Gronk or Hernandez would take the team out of their preferred sets.
    2) I don't think they need Waters, Connolly, and Koppen. 2 of the 3 is enough. Wendell is not much worse than Connolly or Koppen. I also think Waters would want a raise if her were to come back - which leads into the 3rd and most important comment.
    3) I'd love to see the salary cap implications of all these moves. Because I'd want to put as much $$ towards the defense as possible. Koppen and Connolly would probably both want starter money. Lloyd will want to get paid like a #1 WR, but on this team he'd be a 3rd or 4th option.

    One thing that nobody has talked about: if Light retires, and 85 and Wright are released, the Pats will have close to $17 mil of dead money hitting the cap - which is a lot!
  15. fumbrunner

    fumbrunner Rookie

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    I don't think the team is ready to hand over the RB 1 position to an unproven 2nd year player. I expect the backfield to look exactly the same as this year, with Vereen taking Faulk's spot.
  16. Raymond

    Raymond Rookie

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    Also the same result if Gronk had no ankle sprain.
  17. Gronkandez

    Gronkandez Rookie

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    :rolleyes:

    I completely disagree. I vehemently disagree. I am now angered.

    BJGE has ZERO big play ability. If Ridley and Vareen are both Lomo then fine, but I doubt that is the case. They both flashed talent this year. Vareen only had one good run in limited playing time but that was all I needed to see. I am pumped for this duo next year. RB4 should be a new guy who can play special teams.
  18. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Correct me if I am wrong but I consider a touchdown to be a big play. Green-Ellis is pretty good at scoring touchdowns.
  19. Gronkandez

    Gronkandez Rookie

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    Yet Brady run QB sneaks all the time on the goal line and busts up his shoulder doing so.

    I will agree though that the GL area is the one spot where I don't have as much confidence in Ridley and Vareen, however the Pats have plenty of passing plays that are effective inside the 5.
  20. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 Rookie

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    I don't really like the idea of letting BJGE walk and hand the starting spot over to Ridley. While he definitely flashed last year, what he did prove is that he wasn't ready to carry the load. Possession is far too important to just hand over, so until Ridley can prove he can hang onto the ball, Benny would be my guy. He's not a sexy player, but he is as reliable as they come, and with Brady at QB, I think that's all you need at RB. I also don't think anyone will offer big money to him so he should be retained at a reasonable price. Ridley is the future, but he has to earn it.
  21. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yup, but schit happens every season and Branch's value even to an upgraded WR unit should be apparent to anyone who isn't ADHD or fantasy obcessed. And the thing many seem to miss about Branch is he STILL does all the little things even when he isn't personally being targeted, and Bill and the coaches love that about him. Not to mention he knows exactly what the drill is here and he's already indicated he's down with being whatever this team needs him to be including mentor and stop gap. And if they get a guy like Lloyd in to replace him and he works out allowing Branch to replace Ocho...he will still produce at a decent level as a 3rd WR because of his knowledge of the system and connection with TFB.
  22. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think they handed it over to LoMo in 2007…for what it's worth.
  23. fumbrunner

    fumbrunner Rookie

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    Much different situation. Dillon was at the end of his career. Bjge is still relatively young and by all accounts is a true patriot type. Sure, he doesn't break the big play often. But luckily our coach looks for things beyond fantasy football stats
  24. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BJGE has 510 official carries in his 4 years with the Patriots. Those 510 official carries have resulted in 5 TOTAL runs of 20 yards or more, and 0 runs of 40 yards or more. In 2 of his 4 seasons, he's not had a single carry of 20+ yards, and his career long is 33 yards.

    BenJarvus Green-Ellis: Career Stats at NFL.com

    Those aren't just fantasy football stats. Those are stats which tell opposing teams that they don't have to worry about getting gashed by a BJGE run. Hell, Ridley has already tied BJGE's career best of 33 yards and gotten 5 carriers of 20+ yards in 87 attempts.

    Stevan Ridley: Career Stats at NFL.com
  25. Professor Frink

    Professor Frink Rookie

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    I like the idea of giving more carries to Vareen and Ridley, but I still think BJGE can have a role on this team.

    First of all, where did this notion come from that he can't play special teams? Hell, the only reason he was on the team his first few years were because of his ST abilities. Second, just because he isn't a big play threat doesn't mean he can't provide value to this offense. He would likely be the best pass protector, and would be perfect as the guy to bring in to wear down defenses in the second half. Oh yeah, he'd also be the top guy in redzone/goalline situations. He has the confidence of the coaching staff, and provides insurance against the new guys getting hurt or not realizing their potential.

    If another team wants to overpay him, I'm fine with letting him walk. But if he can be had for 2.5-3 million I think they should lock him up.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  26. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I fail to see how it's Green-Ellis' fault that Brady runs the QB sneak.
  27. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with this thought, Deus.

    There's no reason to think that Branch cannot still be effective for the right price, at least for another yr in a lessened role.

    And if the injury bug should hit, we know that we have a guy who can step in and start with no problem.

    I would love to see Branch take over the role that 85 had here this yr. That still allows him to contribute about 30-35 catches a yr, and offers a great viable depth option.
  28. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agreed. There's no doubt there's a spot on the team for him, and he certainly has skills that are worthy enough as a RBBC player. I tend to think that his injury this yr really hurt him, and that he can offer something closer to what we saw in the first NYJ game.

    I think this situation will go a bit deeper into the FA period, as he/his agent/maybe even the Pats will want to see what the market is for his services. It may be awhile before this situation is resolved.

    I would agree on a deal of around 2 yrs/4.5 to 5 million, so we're both around the same number in regards to his worth here. The question becomes how much he is looking for.
  29. Leemo

    Leemo Rookie

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    I agree with your re-sign lists for offense although I'd like to get Reggie Wayne AND Lloyd as well as going after a WR when the time is right in the draft after of course cutting Ocho and possibly Branch. Re sign Slater mostly for his ST work though. The more I think about it the more I think we go dull in the draft and take Peter Konz, C, with our first pick then trade back with the 31st pick (hope i'm wrong). BJGE is a player that alot of our fans simply do not realise his value. The guy has never fumbled on a carry for us, quite a stat, ball security is essential. I'm all for Ridley/Vereen/Woodhead but can they look after the ball? We don't know...

    I know this thread is titled offense but my defense views are here two... IMO we need to get a safety in FA to start along side Chung, the best bets would be Dashon Goldson or Micheal Griffin. Dowling and McCourty can start at CB imo with Moore and Arrington and a drafted CB next i n the depth chart. To be honest I would to trade Arrington if possible, I don't rate him at all and with all his INT's I think teams may be interested in him right now, could be a good time to move him on. I hope we re-sign Anderson, Warren and Carter. In the draft I think we should go defense with most picks aside from the WR mentioned earlier. OLB, DE, CB, S. Bottom line is defense defense defense and I really hope we use most of of early picks this year...
  30. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As has been noted in another thread, these moves today have apparently freed up another 3 million towards the cap.

    Does anyone see these moves coinciding with the possible signing of one of our own in the next couple/few days? Or just a routine slash or two?

    Is it out of the realm to think that they are hard at work in the Welker deal, as I would presume that they would much rather know where they stand with a lesser-cap hit prior to the March 13 start of FA? Or is this just wishful thinking?
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