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Republicans can's pass own doomed bill

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "Norway had it coming" threads notwithstanding, it appears we still have a manufactured debt crisis.

    Boehner, having been given exactly what the pubbies wanted, with a backup plan by the Senate also giving the pubbies exactly what they wanted, attempts to get the teabaggers to vote for what they supposedly wanted, and...

    Fail.

    Tomorrow's Friday. Tuesday is August 2.

    The House right now is incapable of action. Even if they get up bright and early and vote at 9:00 tomorrow morning to pass the Boehner bill, they have to move it over to the Senate (two days after predicted on a very tight timeline,) to have it killed.

    What they're doing is self-fusterclucking the whole deal, because it sets up an avalanche whereby the Senate has to quick-hurry-up vote out the Reid Bill (which is also exactly the things the pubbies wanted.)

    Then who of us will be surprised if the same clown college spikes the Senate reply?

    And then... tadaaaa! They set up a true emergency, whereby Obama raises the debt ceiling himself via executive order, invoking the 14th amendment that you can't put the full faith and credit in question.

    and then of course, the teabaggers have what they really want, something else to moan about in corporate-money miniseries and docudramas for a year preceding the next election. Or if they're dumb enough, they (and you parrots here,) can go on a whine-a-thon about his dictatorial power-grab and try to get him impeached (since he seems to have a clean personal life.)

    The difficulties here are:

    (1) the public gets what the clown college has been up to, and Obama (thus far) has won the messaging war on this one, and

    (2) The Senate is not the House, and you need the Senate to impeach.

    You know Obama. He's basically a moderate. When -- and I'm beginning to think it's when, not if -- he raises the debt ceiling by executive order or signing statement or somesuch, he'll raise it according to Republican terms. He'll slide in some revenue increases, but nothing shocking (for example, raising rates across the board, the sensible solution which we left behind eons ago.) He'll do the bad compromise, primarily composed of Republican talking points, and call it balanced. He's not a liberal, he's not a progressive, and he was never going to be. He's simply a moderate, actually measured by his actions, leaning toward the conservative side.

    And you know the current crop of pubbies - they'll proclaim him to be Hitler and Stalin all rolled into one.

    But that said, I think what will happen is he'll get the credit of being the one who could act. I think by the time we're close to Tuesday, it will truly and self-evidently be a necessity, and it will be abundantly clear what the stakes are. If they let it go until Monday, the markets will tell the story.

    The Bachmanns of the world will make hay out of how nothing would have happened if those bad government people weren't fooling you all, and we just defaulted on our debt. Me? I think we all get that the economy is on the brink on this one, the savants on this board and some guys with tinfoil helmets notwithstanding.

    It's been an interesting few months, as the majority of one-third of the government is substituted for "the people" in all the national debate points.

    It's not likely to get less interesting, that's for damn sure.

    But I for one look forward to the unending stream of parroted nonsense between now and November 2012, as the right chases itself farther and farther to the right.

    They've all overreached to the point that a cursing, angry, wrinkled tangerine is the symbol of reason in the Republican party. Alan Simpson -- a republican -- has signaled his disgust on numerous occasions. Wild eyed leftists like the Wall Street Journal have gotten to the point of lambasting the teabaggers.

    What's it all add up to? To me, it looks like four more years, four more years.

    Were I Obama, I'm not sure I'd still want the job. They're doing this the wrong way, as is obvious to anybody who can count. Maybe he'll "show his true colors" after '12, and make the real necessary adjustments -- a real balanced approach, including Reagan-era tax rates, just for example.

    We'll see. The pubbies are guaranteeing that much.

    PFnV
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  2. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Kinda odd that our ratings are intact (while our government demonstrates that it is incapable of fiscal reform) while all across Europe downgrades are being handed out amidst the implementation of austerity measures. You have to wonder how long that will continue.
     
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They got a head start on us in terms of debt alone -- concentrated in specific national situations, which are now intertwined.

    What I we're seeing now is a combination of getting closer to the debt cliff, with the repeated demonstrations that we cannot govern in such a way as to seriously address our debt.

    Our debt instruments are issued for various periods.... debt like the long bond that's supposed to be rock-solid can't look good when you look at the 2020 projected upward trend in debt as percentage of gdp. We all know that.

    What we were arguing about was timing. But the threat of default itself is putting us on the path to a downgrade all on its lonesome. They're warning on both political behaviors and fiscal policy.

    We've all got our prescriptions. If you simply let the whole of the Bush cuts expire -- which were initially advanced to "give back" the Clinton surplus (when in fact we still had debt, we just didn't have debt accumulating for a brief window) -- you get the magic $4 trillion over 10 years.

    But that simple way of addressing what is in essence a simple problem is evidently off the table.

    My understanding is that Treasury is going to brief us tonight on who gets pushed off the cliff in what order if we don't git 'er dunnnn.

    This looks very much to me like what you do to make people say "Christ, thank GOD Obama eventually said enough is enough and changed the debt ceiling by emergency measure."

    You get a failed House plan (not to mention doing the equivalent of running the ball up the middle repeatedly when you're 21 down in the 4th quarter,) then with whatever time is left, you get a failed Senate plan... and then what?

    You can't convince the bulk of the nation of the tea party fantasy that "everything would be fine" if we just ignored Aug. 2.

    People would shrug and say "welp, good thing there's that line in the 14th Amendment."

    PFnV
     
  4. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    There is no window in the last 50 years when we weren't accumulating more debt. I've posted it before: there were no actual surpluses (remember the S.S. surplus-->general fund accounting trick).

    Boehner's inability to get this done reflects badly on his leadership, IMHO. At least he finally realized that there was no point in passing another bill that the Senate would vote down.
     
  5. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    When did he realize that? I'm still reading that it is delayed. This next election is going to be huge...............and really scary no matter what way it goes.
     
  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I don't know why they are even fooling around with this anyway. They passed cut, cap and balance so they should keep submitting it.

    Where is Obama's plan? At this stage he should roll out his grand plan for everyone to see, not just the backroom people.

    Here's a plan. Reduce all spending to 2009 levels and keep them there for 3 years. That would reduce the deficiet and the national debt. Only in Washington is a reduction in the projected rate of increase of spending called a cut.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  7. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    And what would that accomplish? It's already been tabled in the Senate. CC&B is going nowhere, and for good reason.
     
  8. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    I was assuming that was why he didn't just pass the bill that would be turned down by the Senate, but who knows what is going on in this mess.
     
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    God help America, we have lost our way, our values, our traditions, our patriotism all being destroyed and now the drunks, the pigs, the sexual perverts and the affirmative action president that the foolish people blindly rushed to elect all gushing and fawning over his "Hope And Change Bullsh!t" are now driving the final nail into the coffin.

    May God Almighty Have Mercy On Your Souls

    Politicians Are Vile Pus And Sh!t Juice Covered Vermin


    :bricks:
     
  10. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I don't care if they send it up to the Senate eleventy hundred times. Maybe they will wake up and pass it some time.

    All the other 'plans" are fools gold and will do nothing to cure our national debt or help this country get out of this recession, which appears to be going into double dip.

    And I will ask again: Where is Obama's plan? At this stage he should roll out his grand plan for everyone to see, not just the backroom people.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  11. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    All I hear are "leaders" scared ****less of some COMPANY ( Standards & Poor ) , classifying our country differently...

    Talk about having no sovereignty... Who controls us? Really? It's obvious with this debate... the International banking community... which has no country allegiances.

    Who give a **** about our credit rating... you either trust us becuase it's us, or you don't. Why do we place our selves at the mercy of a few un-elected elites?

    This debt crisis would make the founding father revolt against ourselves.
     
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well the Senate should have an open debate since they haven't passed anything. Better than shutting the government down, right?

    Where is Reid budget proposal for 2012 BTW? We know he didn't so one for 2011, will the Senate ever do thier work with the budget while the dems control the Senate? Will they ever do their duty and at lest try to make it look like they are earning their pay......:bricks:
     
  13. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Why would they waste their time with an open debate. They already voted to table the bill. Why would anyone vote to table the bill if there were any possibility whatsoever they'd vote for it?
     
  14. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    CC&B is utterly unworkable and would be political suicide for whomever voted for its implementation. In fact, I suspect the only reason they're voting for it at all is that, while it's popular among the base, they know it has no chance in hell of become law and thus they're insulated from the real-life implications of their radicalism.

    It is pretty funny that on one hand you're worried about a double dip recession and on the other you're advocating a 40 percent reduction in federal spending. There's a little cognitive dissonance for you.
     
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They should let the country know why they object to the bill and what they propose. Of course they are cowards and just playing politics to try to get an edge since they can't run on Obama's horrible economic record.

    Did you see the GDP #'s for the first and second quarters? We are heading for another recession.

    Q1 revision:

    Charting Q1 GDP Pre And Post The 80% Downward Revision | ZeroHedge

    Here are the pre revision Q2 numbers. The only response from the governemtn will be QE3 IOW more debt and borrowing.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/and-scene-q2-gdp-13

    Against this background of failed policies and an economy returing to recessing while the unemployment number is > 16% (including those who have used up their benefits). The establishment refuses to consider even minor cuts in the accelerated spending of the past 2 years and the projected spending increases.

    Absolutely criminal.
     
  16. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    It's only a 40% cut if you are one of those who believe that reducing the projected rate of increase is a cut.
     
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So in lib land open debate is a waste of time letting the American people know where you stand with words is a waste of time, just conduct talks behind closed door and keep American citizens in the dark.

    So much for the transparent party and administration still no plan from Obozo or dirty harry.

    No FY 2012 budget from the Senate no hearings. The pubs shoud just go on summer break. The Administration have already told the bondholders they will be paid no default send the gov workers home.
     
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BTW it seems H Reid can't even get his bill though the Senate........:p
     

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