Report: Welker won't be franchised

[Ivan]

Why is it different? The NFL is about yards and points..

No kidding? And with Welker the Patriots have had 2 of the 3 most productive offenses in NFL history. And since he came to NE they have had the most productive offense in NFL history over that span. Take the 5 seasons Brady has played with him and find any team that has scored more points over a 5 year span? It can't be done.

 

[Brady6]

Because, other than the short yardage specialist, all "running" running backs are trying to accomplish the same thing: maximize yards per carry, minimize turnovers, move the chains.

Wide receivers, on the other hand, come with several different specialties and goals. The two most often discussed are "possession receiver" and "deep threat" but, as BB stated, "slot receiver" is a speciality of its own and is almost a completely different position. What you're basically arguing for is a YPC approach to rankings and compensation, for all receivers.

Wisely, teams don't follow that advice.

They don't? When is the last time you saw a possession slot receiver go in the top rounds of the draft? No team is out there using their valuable resources to find the next Wes Welker.

It's about yards and points. Moving the chains doesn't win championships

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

They don't? When is the last time you saw a possession slot receiver go in the top rounds of the draft? No team is out there using their valuable resources to find the next Wes Welker.

It's about yards and points. Moving the chains doesn't win championships

It won 3 for the Patriots

Before you started following football?

 

[Brady6]

Vincent Jackson plays a different role than Welker does, and while i agree they need a deep threat that in no way means they should throw away the most productive receiver in football for the past 5 years. The answer is to re-sign Welker and add a deep threat or 2 in the draft and free agency. The Patriots get worse if the let Welker walk, period, there is no way to be as good without him.

I agree that he makes them better but I question if he makes them $10M better that's all I am saying.

 

[Ivan]

It's about yards and points. Moving the chains doesn't win championships

So name the team that has put up more yards and points than the Patriots have with Welker?


C'mon now, you are the one who set the criteria, let's see you come up with the answer.

 

[Helmet2Helmet]

No kidding? And with Welker the Patriots have had 2 of the 3 most productive offenses in NFL history. And since he came to NE they have had the most productive offense in NFL history over that span. Take the 5 seasons Brady has played with him and find any team that has scored more points over a 5 year span? It can't be done.

Too bad none of that has carried over to the playoffs with Welker in the playoffs. Time for Brady to suck it up and get on without his best friend, vacation buddy Wes the 'BM' Welker.

I mean seriously, Brady already has enough weapons on offense to win. Gronkowski, Hernandez, Ridley, Vereen, and one of the league's better offensive lines.

Time to say, "cya" to the overrated and limited Welker and shore up the defense so we actually have a chance in the playoffs when the offense stutters with all their millions locked up in a QB, 2 TEs, G, etc..

Welker has had enough chances to help this team to win a superbowl. As an, "elite" receiver as everyone claims, he hasn't been able to do it. Choked up twice, time to move on.

 

[Brady6]

It won 3 for the Patriots

When? Because I'm not sure if you've noticed the NFL has changed.

Greg Jennings
Jordy Nelson
Hakeem Nicks
Victor Cruz
Torey Smith
Aquian Bolden

Those are the WR combos that have been winning not possession slot WR.

 

[Deus Irae]

They don't? When is the last time you saw a possession slot receiver go in the top rounds of the draft?

Well, now, it depends on just how "possession" you want to get, and you choose to ignore that the Welker-style slot WR as a major weapon is mostly a new development to the game.

No team is out there using their valuable resources to find the next Wes Welker.

EVERY team is out there using valuable resources to find the next Wes Welker, including the New England Patriots.

It's about yards and points. Moving the chains doesn't win championships

So you're home on spring vacation: High school or middle school? Given NE Patriots history and the likelihood that your mother wouldn't let you post this way if you were still in elementary school, that's the only thing that makes any sense.

 

[Brady6]

Well, now, it depends on just how "possession" you want to get, and you choose to ignore that the Welker-style slot WR as a major weapon is mostly a new development to the game.



EVERY team is out there using valuable resources to find the next Wes Welker, including the New England Patriots.



So you're home on spring vacation: High school or middle school? Given NE Patriots history and the likelihood that your mother wouldn't let you post this way if you were still in elementary school, that's the only thing that makes any sense.

It is ok to disagree with me but don't attack me or insult me that is unnecessary.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Moving the chains did win for the Pats and will always win. There have been 2 broad generic problems preventing SB repeats for our boys (1) poor defenses that eventually collapse completely (2) inconsistency in offense moving the chains. Each has several contributing factors. Complexity abounds.

Eliminating the NFLs top receiver for the last several years in this "changed NFL" will not improve the 2013 Patriots. And I like Edelman and think he'll have a good year.

 

[Ivan]

I agree that he makes them better but I question if he makes them $10M better that's all I am saying.

When free agency is over Welker will be the best value of any signing in terms of production versus pay. They won't be able to replace him without paying much more than he will get. If Patriot's fans want them to be worse for the rest of Brady's career then getting rid of Welker is definitely the way to go about it.

 

[Deus Irae]

It is ok to disagree with me but don't attack me or insult me that is unnecessary.

How is asking what level of school you're currently attending, and explaining my rationale, an attack or insult?

 

[Helmet2Helmet]

So name the team that has put up more yards and points than the Patriots have with Welker?


C'mon now, you are the one who set the criteria, let's see you come up with the answer.

That's easy!

Playoffs:
Giants in 2007
Jets in 2010
Giants in 2011
Ravens in 2012

 

[Ivan]

It is ok to disagree with me but don't attack me or insult me that is unnecessary.

When posters say ridiculous things questioning whether or not they meet the intellectual height bar becomes a responsibility. helmet2helmet wouldn't be allowed on the train that runs inside the mall so he's now on ignore.

 

[ivanvamp]

When free agency is over Welker will be the best value of any signing in terms of production versus pay. They won't be able to replace him without paying much more than he will get. If Patriot's fans want them to be worse for the rest of Brady's career then getting rid of Welker is definitely the way to go about it.

Ivan, I'm on the record as saying I prefer to keep Welker because I think he's great and I think the offense is better with him.

But it is not clear that using the roughly $11 million it would take to keep Welker is best spent on Welker instead of defensive help, for example.

The goal is to have the best TEAM. Losing some on offense (which I think is certain to happen without Welker) may be tolerable if there is greater improvement on defense. In other words, if losing Welker costs the Patriots 4 points a game on offense, but adding a stud defender improves the defense by 5 points a game, then overall the team is better.

I don't know how likely such a scenario is, but it sure is theoretically possible (and within the realm of reason) to lose Welker and yet have a better *team*.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That's easy!

Playoffs:
Giants in 2007
Jets in 2010
Giants in 2011
Ravens in 2012

Res ipsa non loquitur.

 

[Ivan]

Moving the chains did win for the Pats and will always win. There have been 2 broad generic problems preventing SB repeats for our boys (1) poor defenses that eventually collapse completely (2) inconsistency in offense moving the chains. Each has several contributing factors. Complexity abounds.

Eliminating the NFLs top receiver for the last several years in this "changed NFL" will not improve the 2013 Patriots. And I like Edelman and think he'll have a good year.

Right on the money, and the one thing that is a certainty is that their offense will not be as good next season if Welker leaves, and it may not ever be as good again unless they strike it rich in the draft or free agency. Replacing HOF quality players is almost impossible.

 

[Deus Irae]

...But it is not clear that using the roughly $11 million it would take to keep Welker is best spent on Welker instead of defensive help, for example...

It's not clear that Brady's money is best spent on Brady, or that any player's money, on any team, in any sport, is best spent on that player. That's why GMs get paid.

It's clear, however, that people here have lost their mind with the Welker stuff, largely because of a couple of dropped passes and a couple of blown leads by the defense. It's embarrassing as hell to see Patriots fans falling to the intellectual level of Jets fans, but it is, admittedly, funny as hell at the same time.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Res ipsa non loquitur.

Hey! No Spanish in here.

 

[signbabybrady]

So making up that you think we will replace half of the production with no basis is reason to celebrate? The other half is what makes the offense good.

Making up? Some of my modest numbers that I assume player X would get to replace Wes is really no more or less assuming that if Wes were back he would get another 120 catches. Both make sense. I would assume if we brought Wes back he would have a similar year to what he always does and I assume if Wes were gone someone else would catch a few passes and I think 57 is a fairly modest guess on what this guy could do. call it making things up or call it making a projection on next years production like we would with any position.

Bottom line is you dont want to except that fact the I am not trying to say that this offense will be better without Wes next year. All I am saying is that this offense will still be pretty darn good and produce without him and that it will very likely be able to move on and put up more than enough points and gain its fair share through the air. If that money were to spent wisely to continue to improve the defense the offense will still be fine.

Oh and I would obviously perfer to have Wes back but just bracing myself for the possibility it might not happen.