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Report: Welker won't be franchised

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Spergon Wynn, Feb 17, 2013.

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  1. Deus Irae

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    Your approach is basically hope in one hand.....

    That's a recipe for problems, to put it gently. Also, your numbers are off, probably because, despite your claim, you're not adding a Caldwell and looking for 57 catches.
  2. Ivan

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    I have a very good source that says that Borges is always wrong.
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    Not everyone has Tom Brady to help them do it with. And the point of my post was not to say that coming up with 120 will be easy but it was more to say that almost by default in having Tom we can easily replace half of it with any JAG at WR a la Caldwell.
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    Great idea, replace a guy having a HOF career with a JAG.
  5. Brady6

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    Welker is not worth $11.5 million. Outside of Calvin Johnson I can't identify a WR that is worth that type of coin.
  6. Deus Irae

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    Do I really have to list all the failed "replacement" WRs to demonstrate the fallacy here, or can I just put "Chad Johnson" to make the point?
  7. signbabybrady

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    They dont fully add up to 120 receptions no but I can very easily get half of that without any major investment and if we assume we find someone better than Reche Caldwell we get even closer. From there other guys on the roster will need to pick up some slack but that is not unrealistic either if we assume Gronk and Hernandez can be healthier next year.
  8. Brady6

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    WW is a fringe HOF at best. He lacks the TD's and SB wins needed to be called a HOF..
  9. signbabybrady

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    My point was not to say that it should be the plan but rather that at a bare minimum that is what you would likely be looking at.
  10. PatsWickedPissah

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    Deus is right. Having a plan is one thing, having it be a viable plan is another and then there's executing the plan. Normally I'm in the value camp but the Pats blew that opportunity themselves by waiting until 2012 and then not structuring a long enough deal. Time to make another "exception" to the philosophy, keep Brady productive, max out the chance to win and accept the fact that maybe there'll be a dead cap hit a few years out when there's a bigger cap.

    EDIT: Most likely that ship has sailed. G'Bye Wes!
  11. Brady6

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    Not to completely disagree with you but Johnson was an outside receiver and other than Moss no WR has ever been successful in that outside downfield role during the TB12 era.

    Players like Branch, Troy Brown have had success in the slot, mid range role that Welker plays. Obviously not to the degree of course.
  12. signbabybrady

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    That does not really make any point at all because had Welker gotten hurt that year do you not think that Chad might not have caught a few more passes?

    None of you are giving Tom enough credit. Tom Brady is good enough to get by with much less than Wes if he had to and with Gronk, Hernandez, and Lloyd in place you are already far and above what you had in 06 which Brady still put up great numbers and took a team to the AFC championship.

    In no way shape or form am I trying to say that it will be easy to completely replace Wes but what I am saying is that almost by default you can replace some of it with any jag, you should be able to replace some of it by spreading the ball to other players on the team (with the most likely being Gronk and Hernandez especially if they are healthier), and lastly it will not kill your chances to win if you are the 3rd or fourth best offense in the league instead of the first (Basically so what if you lose a little production it doesnt automatically corelate to wins and losses).
  13. Deus Irae

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    I'm sure that, if Welker had gotten hurt on week one, Chad Johnson would have had 120+ catches and more than made up the difference.


    [​IMG]
  14. signbabybrady

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    For a little more context.

    Rather than to compare Caldwell and Wes

    Lets compare 2006 Brady to 2012 Brady

    06 Brady - 319 completions for 3,529 yds and 24 TDs
    12 Brady - 401 for 4,827 and 34 TDs

    There are some significant differences there but again I would contend that even without Wes replacement in place this offense still looks better in 13 with Gronk, Hernandez, Lloyd, and the RB comitee that in 06.

    Now I would like to think that whoever they bring in will actually be better than a 2006 Caldwell and that is more what I am worried about than trying to replace 120 receptions and one of the best WRs in the league. There is enough talent on that offense to pick up the slack and still be one of the 5 or 10 best offenses in the league.

    Would I love Wes back? Yes. Do I think we could have him had they handled it differently? Yes. Do I think it is the end all be all to being able to win one more title? Asolutely not.
  15. signbabybrady

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    But that is not even close to what I contended. Had Welker gotten hurt in week 1 that year I think Chad would very likely have gotten pretty close to the 57 that Reche Caldwell put up in 06 though which is exactly what my point was.


    But to be fair I think your point does have some credence as average as Caldwell was there is no guarentee any Jag would do what he did that year but we would be able to move on from this guy and try another jag. But again my point was not to say that we should replace Wes with a JAG but if that was all we could come up with we still would not be in as bad a spot as you are making it out to be.
  16. TomPatriot

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    FWIW, here are my thoughts.

    No one wants to pay a 32 yo slot receiver $12 million per or even a bit less over a longer term at a higher guarantee. I don't see any team (i.e., Giants, Broncos) with enough cap room to do it. Maybe that is what the Pats are thinking.

    I am not a huge slot receiver fan and I like but don't love Wes Welker. That said, he's probably going to the Hall and he deserves it. That's probably true of Megatron and certainly true of Sticky. They are all great receivers in different ways. Sticky is the most versatile of the three; he does everything well and he's a coach's dream.

    Welker is Brady's crutch at times because Welker is so quick, precise and elusive. That's good and bad. It means he usually has a checkdown, no matter what the play. It also means he might checkdown too quickly at times.

    I suspect they still think Edelman can give them some production and they will go to the TEs in slot more and maybe the backs in motion and set. Note that is 3-4 other players needed to pick up the slack.
  17. Deus Irae

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    No, it's pretty much exactly what you were implying.

    Johnson couldn't get it done. That's exactly what my point is. Your Caldwell fixation misses the mark by a country mile, because it's ignoring both elephants in the room.

    Whether you like it or not, Caldwell was able to fit in to the Patriots well enough to have a career season for himself, but most players brought in under similar circumstances have been bombs (elephant #1). From Johnson to Galloway, to Gabriel, to Hayes, etc......

    Like I said, your plan is basically hope in one hand....
  18. Brady6

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    Can pose this question for the crowd?

    Ranking Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Edelman, Lloyd and Vereen how would you place them when it comes to big play and playmaking ability?
  19. signbabybrady

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    Absolutely not I never said any JAG could replace Wes I said any Jag could do what Caldwell did in 06 and I even backed off that a little to give credence to one of your points which is that there is no guarentee that every JAG could do what Reche did but that it shouldn't be to hard to find one that could.



    Johnson couldnt get it done no arguments here. But I think it is safe to assume that if had as little ahead of him as Reche did in 06 that he would have done more.



    None of the players you mentioned were brought in under similar circumstances to what Reche was brought into. Nor will next years replacement for Wes as we still have more talent than what Reche had on that team.


    You seem to have it in your mind that without Wes Brady will either take a sack, throw a pick, fumble, or throw an incompletion 120 more times than with him.

    Fact is some of those completions might not be made but most of them will be made by whoever replaces Wes and the rest will be spread to the rest of the team and it might be slightly more difficult for Tom to make those plays but the majority of them will still be made.
  20. Deus Irae

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    This is still not correct, as has been proven time and again.

    Go back and read your posts again. Because of the context of the discussion, you were cleary implying that Johnson could have gotten it done if he'd just had more opportunities.

    Every single one of them was brought in under similar circumstances.

    No, I have it in my mind that Wes Welker is the player around whom the receiving corps revolves, and is the player, besides Brady, who is most responsible for keeping the offense moving. I have it in my mind that replacing that player will take more than "Bring in a JAG, and pretty much any JAG will do!".

    You're confusing hope and opinion with fact.

    Your plan continues to be hope in one hand....
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