Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora (merged many times)

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

He molested Matt Light.....and TB.

 

[supafly]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

There's definitely something more than speculation
Twitter / Jason La Canfora: As I first reported on Mon ...

Fair enough Sciz--if LaCanfora is reporting it, there must be some truth to it.

I'm still more than apprehensive and cautious in getting excited, even if it happens. As Andy pointed out, there are some issues with him vs the run, the season ending injuries in 2 of the last 3 yrs, and a huge contract to deal with.

I hope in some ways that I am wrong, as we're all desperate for a big front 7 signing, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

And pay him $10mill a year?

That's what elite pass rushers get paid. To get a guy like Osi, you've got to be willing to spend. Have you seen the guy play often?

He consistently presses the edge and is consistently in the backfield of opponents. When he's left one on one, he's a nightmare for left tackles. He has a great first step to speed rush and also has the size/strength to bull rush.

He's not as bad against the run as some claim. He's not great, but he's not an embarrassment. People in NY compare him to Strahan, who was an absolute monster as a run stuffer and pass rusher. That's an unfair standard to hold him to. Osi is a damn good player. He'd be a key part of the puzzle in making this defense elite again.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

That's what elite pass rushers get paid. To get a guy like Osi, you've got to be willing to spend. Have you seen the guy play often?

He consistently presses the edge and is consistently in the backfield of opponents. When he's left one on one, he's a nightmare for left tackles. He has a great first step to speed rush and also has the size/strength to bull rush.

He's not as bad against the run as some claim. He's not great, but he's not an embarrassment. People in NY compare him to Strahan, who was an absolute monster as a run stuffer and pass rusher. That's an unfair standard to hold him to. Osi is a damn good player. He'd be a key part of the puzzle in making this defense elite again.

Everything you said here is true but to be honest Id feel more comfortable to see a contract with less guaranteed money and more leaning towards incentives like games played. I also don't know how many years he's looking for but anything over 4 is risky imo.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

He's not as bad against the run as some claim. He's not great, but he's not an embarrassment. People in NY compare him to Strahan, who was an absolute monster as a run stuffer and pass rusher. That's an unfair standard to hold him to. Osi is a damn good player. He'd be a key part of the puzzle in making this defense elite again.

He got benched in 2009 b/c he was horrible as a run stuffer.

 

[sbpatfan]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

The pass rush obsession is really making people delusional. Osi is not worth 8-10 million dollars.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

Everything you said here is true but to be honest Id feel more comfortable to see a contract with less guaranteed money and more leaning towards incentives like games played.

Biggest concerns for me are the medical issues he's had with his knee/hip. If he's healthy and his medical checks out, a 2nd round pick and $8 million dollars per year for one of the best pass rushing defensive ends in the league is a fair price to pay. For every 2nd rounder that turns into a Gronk or Vollmer, there have been a ton who have turned into Wheatley, Butler, Brace, Chad Jackson. Osi is an elite pass rushing DE. He's no exceptional run stuffer, but he's not the huge liability some claim. He can play for me any day.

There's always some risk when giving out a big deal. But that's what you've got to do if you want elite playmaking talent. The Adalius deal did not cripple us. An Osi deal will not cripple us. Cap jail is non-existent.

He got benched in 2009 b/c he was horrible as a run stuffer.

There was a long running feud with Osi and then-Giants-DC Bill Sheridan since training camp of 2009. It extended further than his run stuffing ability. The two had a few dust-ups in training camp and after a preseason game.

A lot of players had problems with Sheridan, Osi being one of them. There was a lot of tension between Sheridan and some players throughout the season. The defense was pretty putrid under Sheridan for most of the year, hence he was canned.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

He's a game changer, Mathews is one dimensional. Packers don't win the super bowl with Rob Ninkovitch(the more all-around player) instead of Mathews the pure pass rusher. Give up the pats 2nd round pick for him and give him a 3 year deal. Raheem Brock does look like a good option too if he's not too expensive.

Come on. Your argument is a team won a SB with an OLB who isn't very good against the run, so thats the blueprint?
Are they paying him $10mill a year?

I'll remember that though. If you replace a good player with a lesser player you won't win as much. Got it.

 

[naF staP]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

While I would really like to have him I don't think BB will go for it. Also sounds like the Ravens are really interested in making the deal.

There are some questions concerning him. Not sure I would like to take the gamble with him and Haynesworth. What if both flop? I might be more interested in a lesser known guy but who was more dependable in the long run.

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

How much worse a running stuffer is he than let's say......Colvin or Adalius?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

Biggest concerns for me are the medical issues he's had with his knee/hip. If he's healthy and his medical checks out, a 2nd round pick and $8 million dollars per year for one of the best pass rushing defensive ends in the league is a fair price to pay. For every 2nd rounder that turns into a Gronk or Vollmer, there have been a ton who have turned into Wheatley, Butler, Brace, Chad Jackson. Osi is an elite pass rushing DE. He's no exceptional run stuffer, but he's not the huge liability some claim. He can play for me any day.

To me, you are overrating his pass rushing ability ( he is FAR from consistent) and giving him way to much credit as a capable run defender.

There's always some risk when giving out a big deal. But that's what you've got to do if you want elite playmaking talent. The Adalius deal did not cripple us. An Osi deal will not cripple us. Cap jail is non-existent.

Of course there is. The Jets have less than 30 players on their roster with any real NFL experience and everyone else is a minimum salary guy who wasnt in the league last year. That is cap jail. They also had to manuever to make an offer to Aso, and ultimately couldnt go high enough to get him from the Eagles because of the cap. The Patriots committing 10mill to Uminyora will have 10 mill less to spend on resigning their own or adding FAs in the future. The Patriots had to cut Kaczur, Crumpler and Warren for cap reasons, and could have lost out on Light due to the cap.
Baltimore may not get Osi because they don't have cap room. They released a bunch of veterans because of the cap. The Raiders reportedly cannot sign any players because they have to restructure contracts just to have room to sign draft picks. The cap is a very real constraint.

There was a long running feud with Osi and then-Giants-DC Bill Sheridan since training camp of 2009. It extended further than his run stuffing ability. The two had a few dust-ups in training camp and after a preseason game.

We haven't even begun to discuss the attitude issues. It goes farther than just Sheridan.

A lot of players had problems with Sheridan, Osi being one of them. There was a lot of tension between Sheridan and some players throughout the season. The defense was pretty putrid under Sheridan for most of the year, hence he was canned.

As I said, he would be a nice piece, and if he would play out this contract, it would be an interesting move to explore, but he is not the guy I would spend that much of my cap on.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

How much worse a running stuffer is he than let's say......Colvin or Adalius?

Adalius, until his skills eroded in his last season, was a plus run defender.
Colvin was criticized as not so good vs the run before he came here, but he was actually a very good run defender in his stint here.
Uminyora would be as bad a run defender as BB has put on the field willingly.

 

[Sciz]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

He's a game changer, Mathews is one dimensional. Packers don't win the super bowl with Rob Ninkovitch(the more all-around player) instead of Mathews the pure pass rusher. Give up the pats 2nd round pick for him and give him a 3 year deal. Raheem Brock does look like a good option too if he's not too expensive.

That Super Bowl was when a lot of people finally realized why Matthews was such a crappy fit for the Pats' 3-4 scheme.

Here's a textbook example of how not to set the edge:
‪Rashard Mendenhall Nails Camera man (Super Bowl XLV)‬‏ - YouTube

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

Adalius, until his skills eroded in his last season, was a plus run defender.
Colvin was criticized as not so good vs the run before he came here, but he was actually a very good run defender in his stint here.
Uminyora would be as bad a run defender as BB has put on the field willingly.

Thomas was a guy whom always seemed to disappear to me in many games....even though he was on the field. The only times I notice him was when he actually sacked somebody.....like Favre.

Colvin always seemed like a guy who played the run because he had to. Always seemed stiff and low effort in run situations.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

Also we won't abandon the 3-4, AH can pay the 5tech 2gap, so the dedicated DE for rush will be a sub package guy, can't see Oi being worth that $$$ unless he was a 3 down DE.

Careful, everyone is going to be angry at you for not catching the wave that we are scrapping everything and starting over with someone elses defensive philosophy.
I'm fine with paying for a pass rushing DE or OLB who will mostly only play in sub packages, becuase that will be 50-60% of the plays and probably 80% of the passes, but you don't make that guy your highest paid defender.

We need to build a pass rush not sign a pass rusher. We are well on the way to doing that, but we arent going to create a defense where Dwight Freeney can spin on running downs just in case its a pass so he can get a sack total.
Players in our defense earn the plays they make by needing to play honest and cover more than 1 responsibility. For every big play that costs us it saves us 3 the other team would get.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

Thomas was a guy whom always seemed to disappear to me in many games....even though he was on the field. The only times I notice him was when he actually sacked somebody.....like Favre.

Colvin always seemed like a guy who played the run because he had to. Always seemed stiff and low effort in run situations.

Adalius in his last season, and Adalius before that were different players. I dont know how to respond to your comment, other than what are you watching if you don't notice one of the better players on the defense in 07 and 08?

Again, I can't comment on what Colvin thought about on the field, but I watched his run defense VERY closely, because it was supposedly a weakness, and after his hip injury there was a lot of concern about if he could make it all the way back. I can tell you that after coming back from that injury he was a VERY good run defending OLB and kept getting better. There was absolutely no lack of effort in his play. I'm not sure what you have been watching.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

I'd love to have him and think he would make us super bowl favorites. I've advocated for him to come here earlier in another Umenyiora thread. But in the last minute after reasoning with myself and reading some of the neutral comments here I just can't see us pulling the trigger.

It's not his age or his ability. He's a great fit. I think we would get 2 excellent years out of him and 2 declining years. Bottom line though is he is leaving the Giants because he doesn't like his contract. Regardless whether he was told he would get a new deal and feels lied to, he has gone about this the wrong way. 7 years 42 million was nothing to scoff at. Now he is looking for Charles Johnson money which is absurd. His last big contract.

I wish it was only giving up the 2nd rounder that would make this deal easy. But I'm assuming he's leaving with the notion that whoever trades for him is going to tear up those last 2 years and give him a 5 year deal front loaded. Thats asking for cap hell right there. McCourty may be looking for Revis, Nambi cash by that time if he keeps progressing. There's also Mayo to think about.

Don't get me wrong. I want him to be a Patriot in the worst way and some may argue with a win now at all costs scenario, but this is exactly the frugal spending that ended the Cowboys and 9ers dynasties in the 80s and 90s among other things. And us not taking part in over extending ourselves is why our run has been 11 years and counting.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

That's what elite pass rushers get paid. To get a guy like Osi, you've got to be willing to spend. Have you seen the guy play often?

Not here.

He consistently presses the edge and is consistently in the backfield of opponents. When he's left one on one, he's a nightmare for left tackles. He has a great first step to speed rush and also has the size/strength to bull rush.

You are severely overrating him. He is inconsistent. Last year he had 7 sacks in 3 weeks and a total of 4.5 in the other 13 games, including 9 straight games with just 1.5 total sacks.
The year before he totalled only 7 all year.
He was also much more consistent before the injuries.
Elite pass rusher, nightmare for LTs, and consistent is quite a stretch.

He's not as bad against the run as some claim. He's not great, but he's not an embarrassment. People in NY compare him to Strahan, who was an absolute monster as a run stuffer and pass rusher. That's an unfair standard to hold him to. Osi is a damn good player. He'd be a key part of the puzzle in making this defense elite again.

We disagree. I think he is closer to an embarrassment than he is to capable.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

Careful, everyone is going to be angry at you for not catching the wave that we are scrapping everything and starting over with someone elses defensive philosophy.
I'm fine with paying for a pass rushing DE or OLB who will mostly only play in sub packages, becuase that will be 50-60% of the plays and probably 80% of the passes, but you don't make that guy your highest paid defender.

We need to build a pass rush not sign a pass rusher. We are well on the way to doing that, but we arent going to create a defense where Dwight Freeney can spin on running downs just in case its a pass so he can get a sack total.
Players in our defense earn the plays they make by needing to play honest and cover more than 1 responsibility. For every big play that costs us it saves us 3 the other team would get.

Building a pass rush goes two ways Andy. You can build it through scheme or build it through players. Why can't you do both?

I would love Osi but Raheem is an interesting one that I wouldn't discount either. The defensive improvement is going to be predicated on what we already have. Any additions are going to be complimentary pieces that may take the D to another level.

Bodden's return (and hopeful injury free season) is the biggest improvement for mine.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

cliffs on this thread:
-report: Pats interested in Osi as price possibly goes down.
- One half gets excited at the possibility of an elite pass rusher joining team overlooking the risks
- Other half claim overrated and not worth price tag.
- If it gets done people will be called out, if not people will get called out just like the idea of Julius Peppers.

If it gets done its because just like the Haynesworth deal BB is moving more towards utilizing players skillsets and building a team around talent as opposed to forcing talent into fitting into the team. If not, Its most likely the pricetag was too high. Too say he's overrated as a pass rusher is absurd and anybody who actually watched him play knows this. When he isn't getting to the QB, he's drawing attention for someone like, Tuck, Kawanuka, JPP or Cofield.